Personal attacks by moderators in a moderated group areunprofessional

[spinoza1111]

...


There are some weird people out there. I'd love to see what Apress
make of his messages!

I'm one of their authors, so they either reason that I've gone crazy
or are taking action. The rule in corporations is "don't make no
waves", but I don't have to worry about my Apress contract, since I
completed the book and I'm receiving royalties. I have told Paul
Manning that he will see posts from me with what's inaccurately called
"profanity" as part of a steadily escalating situation that was caused
by Seebach's refusal to discuss my initial proposal by email, that he
simply withdraw "C: the Complete Nonsense".

It's true that Apress, not wishing to be beholden to one or two "star"
authors, has got quite a collection of people as authors, some of whom
are strange; one dedicated his book to Jesus. The only question is
"strange in what way", and here, we have evidence that while I'm
"strange", Peter is bad strange. He's not learned his trade and uses
back-stabbing and the politics of personal destruction to cover up
this fact.

 

[spinoza1111]

I confess to some idle curiousity myself.  Not enough to waste their time
asking, or anything, but I'm sort of fascinated by watching the process where
people get contacted by someone and gradually figure out that the person
they're talking to is apparently-insane.

Unfortunately, Peter, I contacted Dan Appleman in Oct 2001 with a
praising letter for one of his books, and he unexpectedly replied,
describing an Apress book he'd had in mind but didn't want to write: a
book about developing compilers for .Net. I met him in person in Feb
2002 and showed him the prototype. Initially I was going to have a co-
author but this person bailed, either because he had other
committments or he thought I was strange.

I financed my attendance at VSLive to meet Dan by volunteering to help
Fawcette in conference set up tasks such as assembling guest packs.
The girls I worked with heard me talking about culture and technology
with an unemployed programmer who was doing the same, and they
introduced me to a Fawcette editor who was a widely-read and therefore
somewhat strange science fiction author. He had me write several
articles for Fawcette. The Fawcette unpaid gofer job was the first
nonprogramming job I'd had in thirty years. I liked it.

I met the other principal of Apress at the time, and I guess I wasn't
too strange, since we agreed on a contract.

Strangely, I decided to take a sabbatical at this point to strangely
write my book while working for peanuts in software marketing in San
Francisco because I wanted to write a full, if interpretive, compiler
as part of the book, and strangely, I lived in budget San Francisco
hotels in which I strangely had to move every three weeks since by SF
law if I stayed I would be covered by the eviction statute.

When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're strange
When you're strange

Strangely I had to cash my Apress advances at currency exchanges,
explaining that I was an "author", and they'd look at me funny and
call Apress, and Apress would strangely confirm this.

People are strange when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven when you're down

Strangely, I sat down one morning in my budget hotel to write the case
statement of the interpreter...and dumped a hot Starbucks all over the
laptop. I had to request the advance be advanced by a week or so to
get my Vaio out of the pawnshop, and write one tool on an old Windows
95 laptop using legacy Visual Basic.

Strangely, Dan Appleman (who's unusually kind and decent compared to
most computer thugs) said at this point, "we're rooting for you Ed!".
Dan, like Herb Schildt, has been assaulted online (on Slashdot)
because infants who won't learn Microsoft think they're cute, but Dan,
like Herb and unlike me, has chosen not to reply.

Strangely, I then received a job offer to work in software in China
and strangely I finished the book, which strangely sold well,
according to Gary Cornell, being at times in the top ten compiler
books at Amazon. I need to make a second edition based on C Sharp but
haven't had the time.

When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're strange
When you're strange
When you're strange

I do not frankly know whether Apress would publish me again. There has
been strangeness, and *sturm undt drang*. But I know that if I'd sold
at best seller levels, which is unlikely for a book on compilers, they
would have overlooked the strangeness, because you know, it's all
about money.

 

[spinoza1111]

Assuming he ever actually sends them (normally people don't, but apparently
the one haunting srq actually got so far as being told by a local Friends
Meeting that, no, they would not be taking steps to prevent other people
from disagreeing with him on the internet), it's quite likely that the
first one was taken seriously long enough for people to do research, and that
now it's probably a regular breakroom activity to check up on latest
developments.  I posted a link to the "implementing strstr" thread for my
coworkers because I figured it would break up an otherwise dull afternoon..

As to whether my behavior here is "professional", well, not in general,
no.  I'm not here as a professional, I'm here as a hobbyist who enjoys both
discussion, and C, and occasionally even discussion of C.  However, if anyone
wants to pay me to behave professionally here, I'm quite willing to talk
about hourly rates.  

You're a piece of shit, Peter.

(You said we don't have to be professional. OK.)

Here, you retail stories about OTHER PEOPLE to make your point. This
isn't even the logical fallacy of reasoning by false analogy.

 

[spinoza1111]

Part of my life was spent in the publishing industry. Periodically letters
like that come in. Invariably the sender has a personal interest or
gain trying to leverage the publishing house.  The better ones make
it to editorial meetings. It would be very rare for any of them to be
acted on, there is no gain for the publishing house to do anything.

People are strange, Walter: that thought meme pervades. But Jim
Morrisson, especially after being safely dead, is money, and you like
money.

"I like money." - Idiocracy

"I notice that I can suddenly become relieved when someone else in an
online exchange is getting pounded or humiliated, because that means
I'm safe for the moment."

- Jaron Lanier, YOU ARE NOT A GADGET: a Manifesto

I think I'm accomplishing something here. Since I'm sixty years old,
don't give a ****, and I'm out of programming and in a second career
which I love, I'm perfectly happy to be the lightning rod here for
criticism in order to spare kids and Chinese posters who come in here
similar abuse. I'm delighted in fact to humiliate real frauds like
Peter Seebach. It's fun.

My father met a man who'd served as a Nisei soldier for the 442nd
Regimental Combat Team in WWII under my uncle. He said that my uncle
was far taller than the Nisei men, and that they were pinned down by a
German machine gun nest in Italy.

As the officer, it was my uncle's duty to stand up and say, follow me.
So he did (back then, people didn't as Peter does make so many
excuses). But he was taller than the men and while they were able to
crouch under the machine gun's angle of fire he was not and he was
killed.

Not one of us, unless I'm mistaken, can pretend to this heroism, but
it can be a model.

So bring it on.

 

[Colonel Harlan Sanders]

The contract is already fulfilled. It cannot be canceled. The book is
on-sale, and I'm receiving royalties, same as Seebach. Sorry.

Idiot. Didn't you bother to read your contract?

Publishers draft the contracts, so they make it easy for them to
terminate whenever they want to.

Normally all they have to do is send you a letter, give you a final
accounting, offer any remaining stock to you to buy, then it's all
over, you're out of print.

Let's have a look:
Build Your Own .NET Language and Compiler (Paperback)
~ Edward G. Nilges (Author)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,136,016

Referring to http://www.rampant-books.com/mgt_amazon_sales_rank.htm
we see this translates to less than 3 copies per 500 days. So maybe
two a year, in a good year. I hope you're declaring your royalties.

The idea of the "long tail" is that online sales let such marginal
books to be marketed because Amazon does all the fulfillment and the
paperwork is automated. However, if you start using up the publisher's
management time with this douchebaggery, you are costing them far more
than you could possibly earn with any future sales. A sensible
publisher will cut you loose pretty quickly. If they're more
tolerant, they will just "acknowledge your concerns" and file your
missives, and that will be the end of it. In either case, you can
forget any ideas of submitting new book proposals.

And "same as Seebach"? Let's see:

Beginning Portable Shell Scripting: From Novice to Professional
~ Peter Seebach (Author)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #279,497

That translates to one copy every week or so. So if you make it a
choice of which author to support, as you seem determined to, it's
pretty obvious who that will be.

So go for it!
You'll never live up to your uncounted threats of legal action, ass
kicking, etc., etc., but just maybe you can really shoot yourself in
the foot this time.

 

[spinoza1111]

Idiot. Didn't you bother to read your contract?

Publishers draft the contracts, so they make it easy for them to
terminate whenever they want to.

Normally all they have to do is send you a letter, give you a final
accounting, offer any remaining stock to you to buy, then it's all
over, you're out of print.  

Let's have a look:
Build Your Own .NET Language and Compiler (Paperback)
~ Edward G. Nilges (Author)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,136,016

Referring tohttp://www.rampant-books.com/mgt_amazon_sales_rank.htm
we see this translates to less than 3 copies per 500 days. So maybe
two a year, in a good year. I hope you're declaring your royalties.

You've been misled, Lanier-Troll. Those figures are updated hourly,
and Amazon charges for more accurate figures. Today, the sales have
declined because the software, although it still works, is written for
an older version of .Net. However, whenever I checked, at random
times, the sales figures from 2004 through 2009, they never went below
the 500000th position.

Nobody who publishes one computer book, especially in a specialty,
expects it to be a best seller, but at various times as late as 2009,
this book has ranked on the hourly basis in the top ten books on
compilers sold by Amazon. The marketing manager from Apress also
assured me that its sales were as expected for a compiler book.

Five years of solid sales is actually good for a computer book about a
specific issue on a specific platform. The reason is that I code
without taking advantage of temporary release features, and discuss
computer science and not programming.

But because you're a troll as defined by Jaron Lanier, a person who
attacks people anonymously, nothing I say to you will change your
mind. These responses are mainly for others.

The idea of the "long tail" is that online sales let such marginal
books to be marketed because Amazon does all the fulfillment and the
paperwork is automated. However, if you start using up the publisher's
management time with this douchebaggery, you are costing them far more
than you could possibly earn with any future sales. A sensible
publisher will cut you loose pretty quickly.  If they're more
tolerant, they will just "acknowledge your concerns" and file your
missives, and that will be the end of it.  In either case, you can
forget any ideas of submitting new book proposals.  

You really are a fool, because canceling the contract would not
prevent me from involving Apress using a subpoena, or sending letters
trying to resolve this out of court. If against its own interests,
Apress canceled the contract, I would lose small royalties which for
an expat are taxed at 30%. Big deal.

And "same as Seebach"? Let's see:

Beginning Portable Shell Scripting: From Novice to Professional
~ Peter Seebach (Author)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #279,497

In the first year of my sales, my rank was 4000, frequently, when I
checked. In the second year it was 250000. Again, you're a fool who
doesn't know how these numbers work.

The book has also been selected by several university and public
libraries worldwide, which frankly is more important to me than sales
figures.

That translates to one copy every week or so. So if you make it a
choice of which author to support, as you seem determined to, it's
pretty obvious who that will be.

As I have already said, there would be no reason for them to stop
selling my book, since it wouldn't stop the issue with Seebach. They'd
lose revenue.

I received an advance of 5000.00 for my book, and this advance has
been fully repaid.

Since you appear to me to be a Costco greeter or similar minimum wage
character, you're afraid to complain at your own job. But we're not
all Costco greeters or little shop clerks.

 

[Colonel Harlan Sanders]

You've been misled, Lanier-Troll. Those figures are updated hourly,
and Amazon charges for more accurate figures. Today, the sales have
declined because the software, although it still works, is written for
an older version of .Net. However, whenever I checked, at random
times, the sales figures from 2004 through 2009, they never went below
the 500000th position.

Bestsellers are updated hourly. Not books that sell a few copies a
year.
The figires I cited are current.

Nobody who publishes one computer book, especially in a specialty,
expects it to be a best seller, but at various times as late as 2009,
this book has ranked on the hourly basis in the top ten books on
compilers sold by Amazon. The marketing manager from Apress also
assured me that its sales were as expected for a compiler book.

Five years of solid sales is actually good for a computer book about a
specific issue on a specific platform. The reason is that I code
without taking advantage of temporary release features, and discuss
computer science and not programming.

How nice. You're still not selling more than two or three copies a
year, NOW

But because you're a troll as defined by Jaron Lanier, a person who
attacks people anonymously, nothing I say to you will change your
mind. These responses are mainly for others.

How intersting, you've gone from calling anyone who used the word
"troll" a Nazi to using it yourself, now that you've discovered a
definition that you can twist to exclude yourself.

You really are a fool, because canceling the contract would not
prevent me from involving Apress using a subpoena, or sending letters
trying to resolve this out of court. If against its own interests,
Apress canceled the contract, I would lose small royalties which for
an expat are taxed at 30%. Big deal.

If they cncelled the contract, they would lose about $5 a year in
profits, and be able to tell you to **** off. Cheap at twice the
price.

 

[Colonel Harlan Sanders]

Earlier message was sent prematurely; apologies for the typos.

A couple more details:

You really are a fool, because canceling the contract would not
prevent me from involving Apress using a subpoena, or sending letters
trying to resolve this out of court.

Oh wonderful, now you're threatening to subpoena your own publisher
because they won't discipline another author over a Usenet post.

Chortle.

If they ever happen to look at this little forum (fortunately for you,
unlikely), you will know, because you'll shortly after receive a
final statement and notice that your book is now officially out of
print.

If against its own interests,
Apress canceled the contract, I would lose small royalties which for
an expat are taxed at 30%. Big deal.

That was my point. The book's future earning are negligible. You have
no leverage. Sorry, should have realized that irony involving yourself
was beyond you. Which of course is what triggered this whole thread,
you're unable to take a joke, if you recognize it at all you think
it's a deadly affront.

 

[Julienne Walker]

No, it wasn't funny, Julienne.

Humor is relative, Edward. You don't think it's funny because the joke
is on you and your ego can't handle it.

It's part of a campaign of personal destruction.

Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Further, a
campaign of personal destruction isn't exactly the most effective
response to a (perceived) campaign of personal destruction. It's
generally been proven throughout history that an eye for an eye leaves
everyone blind. If you spent more time applying your education than
boasting about it, you'd probably see that your hypocrisy is
absolutely *not* persuasive.

At this point just about everyone seems to treat you as the local
nutter and won't take you seriously even when you make attempts to
focus strictly on C.

So that's funny? How about blonde jokes? Women driver jokes?

If they're good jokes, yes. I'm not so full of myself that I can't
appreciate a joke at my expense.

 

[Seebs]

On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 04:23:37 -0700 (PDT), spinoza1111

Oh wonderful, now you're threatening to subpoena your own publisher
because they won't discipline another author over a Usenet post.

It's hard to imagine how Apress could be *legitimately* involved, as they're
not in any way a party to this.

But wait! Could it be that there's a moderately common mental disorder
which often results in people feeling that anyone and anything which could
be considered an "authority" is obliged to step in and act on their behalf
whenever people are not treating them precisely as they want to be treated?

If they ever happen to look at this little forum (fortunately for you,
unlikely), you will know, because you'll shortly after receive a
final statement and notice that your book is now officially out of
print.

I don't know that they'd bother. If he actually did something that cost
them money, they might think about it, otherwise, why would they expend
effort changing the current circumstances?

That was my point. The book's future earning are negligible. You have
no leverage. Sorry, should have realized that irony involving yourself
was beyond you. Which of course is what triggered this whole thread,
you're unable to take a joke, if you recognize it at all you think
it's a deadly affront.

Uh-huh.

Reminds me of someone I once saw spend two and a half years (and still
counting) flooding a message board with demands that people acknowledge that
it was "highly aggressive" and "deeply inappropriate" for someone who happens
to be one of the message board owners to respond to something he said with
"don't be silly".

-s

 

[Seebs]

Humor is relative, Edward. You don't think it's funny because the joke
is on you and your ego can't handle it.

Furthermore, the only reason it can be offensive, or funny, or indeed
anything but pathetic, is because everyone involved *including Nilges*
recognizes that the accusations referred to were simply laughable.

Just because you say something doesn't make it true.

I will state for the record that I have no interest at all in trying
to "destroy" Nilges, or undermine his credibility, or anything else. What
I would like most to see would be for him to become a respected and
well-regarded contributor. This does, however, appear to require either
that a whole lot of people get very thoroughly drugged, or that he stop
talking nonsense.

Further, a
campaign of personal destruction isn't exactly the most effective
response to a (perceived) campaign of personal destruction.

Yeah, but he's not actually engaging in a campaign of personal destruction.
He's engaging in a number of individual comments, each of which is (in his
mind) fully justified by the fact that he is irritated or inconvenienced by
other people, and none of which he has any kind of commitment to. Classic
NPD; random floods of invective and obscenities, but if you become useful
to him, he instantly turns to all sweetness and light, and has *no idea at
all* why you're distrustful. Whereupon he realizes that you're biased against
him and attacks you viciously. Again, without any kind of malice or
consideration.

His behavior is perfectly reasonable once you accept that he has no real
functioning model of other people's state.

At this point just about everyone seems to treat you as the local
nutter and won't take you seriously even when you make attempts to
focus strictly on C.

I try to take the strictly-on-C stuff more seriously, but that's
substantially hampered by his policy of declaring anything that people
he dislikes have advocated to be so horrible that he has to do the opposite.

If they're good jokes, yes. I'm not so full of myself that I can't
appreciate a joke at my expense.

Yeah. Healthy adults enjoy the humor and regard the fact that it's there for
comedic value as being sufficient to make the question of whether it might
otherwise be insulting pretty much irrelevant.

How many aspies does it take to change a lightbulb?

One, unless it's hard to reach in which case you need another
to hold the ladder steady, because safety is important.

If none of my friends made fun of my various mental quirks on a given
calendar day, I'd be worried that something was wrong. They're funny.
A couple of my friends used to, whenever we were all out waiting for
something, while away the idle minutes by trying to find mathematics or
computer science questions which would result in me ceasing to respond
to external events for a few seconds.

Best example: You know the thing where summing the digits of a
number can tell you whether it's a multiple of 3 or 9? How does
that work in bases other than base 10? (I freeze up for 10 seconds
or so, not tracking movement if people wave hands in front of me,
etc.) "N-1 and its factors." I then spent the next hour and a half
trying to explain why this was obvious.

-s

 

[spinoza1111]

Furthermore, the only reason it can be offensive, or funny, or indeed
anything but pathetic, is because everyone involved *including Nilges*
recognizes that the accusations referred to were simply laughable.

Actually, they are not. You have proven your incompetence as a
programmer these past two months and you have no academic
qualifications in computer science.

I will state for the record that I have no interest at all in trying
to "destroy" Nilges, or undermine his credibility, or anything else.  What
I would like most to see would be for him to become a respected and
well-regarded contributor.  This does, however, appear to require either
that a whole lot of people get very thoroughly drugged, or that he stop
talking nonsense.

The viciousness is ill concealed by the language, JERK.

Yeah, but he's not actually engaging in a campaign of personal destruction.
He's engaging in a number of individual comments, each of which is (in his
mind) fully justified by the fact that he is irritated or inconvenienced by
other people, and none of which he has any kind of commitment to.  Classic
NPD; random floods of invective and obscenities, but if you become useful
to him, he instantly turns to all sweetness and light, and has *no idea at
all* why you're distrustful.  Whereupon he realizes that you're biased against
him and attacks you viciously.  Again, without any kind of malice or
consideration.

You don't know what you're talking about. It is you, by your own
admission, who's almost dysfunctional, and a detailed analysis of "C:
the Complete Nonsense" shows that it's truly random, and you've
conveniently told us why: you have ADHD. CTCN contains absurd and
overblown claims not backed up by the twenty feeble errata you have
provided, and exhibits grandiose thinking when you pretend it's more
than errata from a minor tech review. Psychological disorder has to
issue in dysfunctionality but even if I have NPD, I am, unlike you, in
control of my life. Your life is defined by employers.

 

[spinoza1111]

Humor is relative, Edward. You don't think it's funny because the joke
is on you and your ego can't handle it.

It wasn't a very good joke at all, and don't start talking about the
male ego, I don't want to here ravings from females who think they
know it.

Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Further, a

No. But when I cite, when I test code before releasing it (unlike Mr.
Off By One), when I produce arguments that seem "verbose" only to
people who are by their own admission attention disordered and unable
to read such taxing material...who here haven't read it...there's a
good reason to call what I say true. Missy, you're a mob member who is
as a female desparately afraid of the sort of targeting of women that
goes on here, and you have joined the mob out of fear.

campaign of personal destruction isn't exactly the most effective

I am waging no such thing. In fact, I have stated, clearly, my
condition for ending this "campaign", and it's not Peter's
"destruction" (which would only in this context be his exit from this
ng), it's that he apologize for the harm he has done to Schildt, and
remove "C: the Complete Nonsense". Whereas his victory condition would
be for me to agree that I'm an "insane moron". Ain't gonna happen, and
I'm gonna win.

The case of Kathy Sierra (cf. Jaron Lanier's book on this) shows that
there is no limit to malice when people, including such dulcet-
speaking creatures like you, join a cybernetic (or office) mob.

response to a (perceived) campaign of personal destruction. It's
generally been proven throughout history that an eye for an eye leaves

It's also been accepted throughout history that people have the right
of self-defense.

everyone blind. If you spent more time applying your education than
boasting about it, you'd probably see that your hypocrisy is

To USE my fucking education is not to BOAST about it, nor is necessary
establishment of credibility. The problem here is that people think
that the "necessary establishment of credibility" is "boasting", but
they boast about their ignorance and failure whilst ascribing it to
others.

absolutely *not* persuasive.

At this point just about everyone seems to treat you as the local
nutter and won't take you seriously even when you make attempts to
focus strictly on C.

I.don't.care. You're talking about a small N < 10 or so group of
people who've formed a cybernetic mob, and who are for the most part
half-educated losers. I propose to clear you out or tone you down so
that people like Schildt and others with something to contribute can
post here. I propose to clear you out or tone you down so that Chinese
posters, who post from mainland China at personal risk, aren't
targeted here with racist slurs about English from people who can't
write English.

If they're good jokes, yes. I'm not so full of myself that I can't
appreciate a joke at my expense.

We are beyond joking, kiddo. I think McGraw Hill and Schildt should
sue Seebach.

 

[Julienne Walker]

We are beyond joking, kiddo. I think McGraw Hill and Schildt should
sue Seebach.

*I* think you should butt out of their business. It's not your place
to provide unsolicited "self-defense" for others, and I strongly doubt
Schildt would approve of how you're doing it. Fortunately, he has no
need to worry about your dragging his good name through the mud by
bringing up old embarrassments. The chances of anyone who might
escalate the damage reading your posts (and blogs) are vanishingly
small.

 

[Seebs]

*I* think you should butt out of their business. It's not your place
to provide unsolicited "self-defense" for others, and I strongly doubt
Schildt would approve of how you're doing it.

Nilges has in the past suggested that Schildt approves, though I have
no idea how much weight to place on that.

Fortunately, he has no
need to worry about your dragging his good name through the mud by
bringing up old embarrassments. The chances of anyone who might
escalate the damage reading your posts (and blogs) are vanishingly
small.

I suspect that people do indeed read them sometimes -- I myself had
been underestimating how famous Nilges was among people who have been
reading Usenet for a long time. However, I think the chances of anyone
*taking them seriously* are indeed vanishingly small.

I don't imagine that there's any chance of Schildt or McGraw-Hill suing
me over that page.

-s

 

[Seebs]

But, but, but ... Doesn't one person immediately say N=1 modulo
N-1 and everyone else says, of course, how obvious?

Heh. Basically, yes, but it takes a while to get there.

-s

 

[Eric Sosman]

[...]
Best example: You know the thing where summing the digits of a
number can tell you whether it's a multiple of 3 or 9? How does
that work in bases other than base 10? (I freeze up for 10 seconds
or so, not tracking movement if people wave hands in front of me,
etc.) "N-1 and its factors." I then spent the next hour and a half
trying to explain why this was obvious.

Neat! I just tried this out in binary (N==2), and it works!

 

[Dr Malcolm McLean]

If they're good jokes, yes. I'm not so full of myself that I can't
appreciate a joke at my expense.

OK, what's the difference between a blonde and a brunette fucntion in
C?

The brunette function accepts parameters.
The blonde tries to take a structure.

 

[Dr Malcolm McLean]

OK, what's the difference between a blonde and a brunette fucntion in
C?

The brunette function accepts parameters.
The blonde tries to take a structure.

Why did the C variable turn away from the blonde and turn to the
brunette?
It was a character pointer.

 

[Dr Malcolm McLean]

On 4 Apr, 09:47, Dr Malcolm McLean
Why was the blonde programmer on her mobile phone?
She was told to call printf().