PickAxe 2 licensing

[Sean O'Dell]

Are there any plans to add support for a searchable version with user
comments?

I was hoping for searchability and user comments, too.

Also, it would be nice if the nav frame were placed on the left, instead of up
top, and methods were only listed for the module/class selected, instead of
all lumped together in one long list.

Sean O'Dell

 

[Ferenc Engard]

open-sourced. This didn't happen. In fact, what seemed to happen is

that folks picked up the free version of the PickAxe and used the money
they'd saved to buy one of the other, closed titles.

I am the counter-example. I have not got too much computer books
(maybe a dozen), but the two open-source book I have ever read on the
net (yours and a tcl/tk book) is included. I have decided to buy it
because I saw that it is worth it, and I do not like reading from the
monitor. (And your book is my only ruby book...)

Keep up the good work:
Ferenc

 

[Carl Youngblood]

I bought it practically the day it came out, and only discovered that
it was going to be released for free a while later. I thought it was
worth it.

Carl

 

[Hal Fulton]

I bought it practically the day it came out, and only discovered that
it was going to be released for free a while later. I thought it was
worth it.

Definitely worth it. And I expect great things of the second one.

FWIW, the people at Sams were initially hesitant about _The Ruby Way_
because of the relatively low sales of the pickaxe.

In an unabashedly self-serving way, I posited (true or not) that the
open-sourcing of the book might account largely for its poor sales.
They seemed to buy this idea.

So in an indirect sense, the open-sourcing of the pickaxe was
instrumental in getting TRW to press. Hmm, nobody much calls it
the Coral Book but me. That's coral on the front, so I'm told.

When/if there is a 2nd edition TRW (which has been discussed but not
made firm), I've been thinking of the possibility of open-sourcing
the *first* edition. If the 2nd ed is significantly different (as it
should be), this might be practical.


Hal

 

[Armin Roehrl]

Maybe one should add a "donate" via paypal or similar service to the
free online books.

Our publisher (dpunkt.verlag) also once mentionned that the online
version of
our German ruby book is probably reducing the book-sales, which might be
true looking
at our webserver's log-files. A popular game seems to use a spide to
create a pdf out
of the html-pages. Fine with me .

Ciao,
-Armin.

 

[Sean Russell]

So, for the new book, we won't initially be releasing the entire book
for free. Instead, we'll be contributing to the community in different

That's OK. I bought your book for myself, twice.

However, I *love* having the reference available online. Would you
consider providing an electronic version for people who buy the book,
or would that be courting piracy?

--- SER

 

[Dave Thomas]

However, I *love* having the reference available online. Would you
consider providing an electronic version for people who buy the book,
or would that be courting piracy?

We haven't decided yet, but it's likely that if we offer a PDF, it's be
deeply discounted for folks who also buy the book. With the existing
(considerably smaller) books, the PDF is $20, the paper $29.95, but the
two together are $37.50. The prices won't be the same for the PickAxe,
but the concept might be.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Phil Tomson]

I wanted to announce this now so there's no surprise when the book
comes out (probably in October).

Great news! sign me up for one copy.

Thanks for all of your help to the community.

Phil

 

[David Morton]

As you know, soon after publishing the original book we released it for
free under an open license. We did this for two reasons. First, we
wanted to see the Ruby community grow, and we felt that having the book
available would help. We think that this happened. Second, we hoped that

I just started learning Ruby 1 month ago, and your book online was the
primary reason I got hooked. If it were not available, I probably would
not have learned Ruby.

I'm too poor right now to get books (and I have a long list of books
that I want) so I really appreciate having it online. As soon as I have
some more disposable income, I will certainly be purchasing it.
(Probably the new edition, at the rate I'm going)

 

[Luc Heinrich]

I wanted to announce this now so there's no surprise when the book
comes out (probably in October).

No surprise. I'll buy it in a split second. And if I have to pay for an
HTML or a PDF version, so be it. Good work needs reward, and Pickaxe is
one hell of a good work.

PS: now Hal, how about a Ruby Way 2 ?

 

[James Britt]

FWIW, the people at Sams were initially hesitant about _The Ruby Way_
because of the relatively low sales of the pickaxe.

In an unabashedly self-serving way, I posited (true or not) that the
open-sourcing of the book might account largely for its poor sales.
They seemed to buy this idea.

When I was working on the ill-fated Beginning Ruby Programming, the
project managers at Wrox Ltd were concerned about what they saw as poor
sales for existing Ruby books, and we were discussing putting the book
online while it was being written.

There seemed to be good arguments both for making the copy available for
free (see Bruce Eckel, and various comments from Tim O'Rielly) and for
not doing so. I'm inclined to think that books with short discursive
sections and (relatively) much reference material are much easier (and
more practical) to read online than books with long sections of prose.

And then Wrox went bankrupt and the book went into limbo.

I think people are inclined to buy the paper versions of Eckel's books
because they do not lend themselves to prolonged on-screen reading. The
Pickaxe, though, works very well as an HTML document, especially for the
reference sections. I have a paper copy of Programming Ruby, but rarely
open it; the CHM and online versions are far more useful.

So in an indirect sense, the open-sourcing of the pickaxe was
instrumental in getting TRW to press. Hmm, nobody much calls it
the Coral Book but me. That's coral on the front, so I'm told.

When/if there is a 2nd edition TRW (which has been discussed but not
made firm), I've been thinking of the possibility of open-sourcing
the *first* edition. If the 2nd ed is significantly different (as it
should be), this might be practical.

If the main goal of "open sourcing" (a weird phrase for a book; don't
all books come with source?) is to lure readers into buying something,
then it may make sense to hold back something from the free version
(e.g., it isn't the current edition, or doesn't have illustrations).

(Online books already lack the quality of resolution one gets from
proper book printing.)

James

 

[James Britt]

(Gosh, it'd be nice if ruby-doc attributed its contributors... I'm
guessing that I wrote at least 50% of the site's content )

What sort of attributions, and where should they go?

The site's content is a mix of pointers to assorted resources
http://www.ruby-doc.org/articles/

... news about documentation and presentations
http://www.ruby-doc.org

... FAQs and guides and tutorials in assorted languages
http://www.ruby-doc.org/downloads/
http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/

... conference videos
http://www.ruby-doc.org/downloads/Euruko2003/

... the rdoc from the Ruby source:
http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/rdoc/1.9/
http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib/

... an HTML version of Programming Ruby
http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/

.. plus the temporarily suspended ri URL interface

All the hosted content is pretty much "as is"; if a file does not
contain a visible attribution or copyright then it will not appear
anyplace. Basically, what one sees is pretty much the same as when one
runs ri or rdoc's the source code. This is mostly so that updates are
easy to just drop into place. I don't want to have to go through and
munge text, style, formatting, and whatnot.

The Programming Ruby pages have a copyright notice, though it only
mentions the publisher, not the authors; the authors' names only seem to
appear on the background image of the cover. If there is a preferred
version of the files to host, please let me know.

The std-lib page has attributions and thanks at the bottom of the first
page.

I certainly agree that authors should get attribution. I'm not quite
sure how and where it be done. There are multiple contributors to the
documentation for both the base classes and the standard lib, and I'm
not sure how practical it is to list who wrote exactly what (unless
perhaps people started signing their names to the source comments).
A more general list of contributors could simply say who contributed
content for what general documents (e.g., core classes, std-lib,
Programming Ruby). This could go at the bottom of the main page, or on
it's own page linked from the home page.

If anyone has content either hosted on ruby-doc.org, or linked from the
site, and would like to see an attribution (assuming it isn't already
there), and has suggestions on how this should be done, please let me
know. I don't want anyone to feel as if their efforts are going
unnoticed or their work is being misappropriated.

Similarly, if anyone sees their work on the site and has a problem with
it being there, tell me and I'll take it down.

James Britt

james <AT> ruby-doc <DOT> org

 

[Richard Lionheart]

Hi Dave,

I bought the PickAxe book *after* I perused the online version for a week or
two. A key issue is that the cross-references faithfully reproduced in the
online version were impossible to follow, at least for this humble reader.
Equally important is the failure of the online version to permit "bedtime
reading." So I happy with my old-fashioned "Gutenberg" version and hardly
ever refer to the "high tech" online version.

Of course, my little data point matters little compared to the macroscopic
voew that you perceive. But maybe my experience has some "human interest"
value.

Best wishes,
Richard

 

[zuzu]

We haven't decided yet, but it's likely that if we offer a PDF, it's be
deeply discounted for folks who also buy the book. With the existing
(considerably smaller) books, the PDF is $20, the paper $29.95, but the
two together are $37.50. The prices won't be the same for the PickAxe,
but the concept might be.

Cheers

Dave

yes, i would love this. i purchased your pragprog book proper, but
not the pickaxe because i would like fewer physical possessions in my
life, not more. ideally my entire library would be PDFs on my laptop,
with backups on my server.

would you consider a cumulative pricepoint where if you achieve a
specific sales/revenue threshold, the PDF is made freely available?
have the community support your supporting the community, rather than
risking that burden upfront.

-z

 

[Richard Lionheart]

Hi All,

... i purchased your pragprog book proper, but
not the pickaxe ...

I thought "The Pickaxe Book" is a nickname for "Programming Ruby: The
Pragmatic Programmer's Guide", so dubbed because of the picture of a pickaxe
on the cover. Am I wrong? Are they really two distinct books?

Regards,
Richard

 

[Matthew Margolis]

Hi All,



I thought "The Pickaxe Book" is a nickname for "Programming Ruby: The
Pragmatic Programmer's Guide", so dubbed because of the picture of a pickaxe
on the cover. Am I wrong? Are they really two distinct books?

Regards,
Richard

Andrew Hunt and David Thomas also have a book called The Pragmatic
Programmer. The book discusses programming pragmatically in a general
sense and does not discuss Ruby. It is an excellent book that has made
me a much better programmer. If you have the cash I really do recommend
that you pick it up.

 

[Dave Thomas]

would you consider a cumulative pricepoint where if you achieve a
specific sales/revenue threshold, the PDF is made freely available?
have the community support your supporting the community, rather than
risking that burden upfront.

I could imagine that folks who paid for the PDF early might feel upset
about this.


Cheers

Dave

 

[Hal Fulton]

Hi All,




I thought "The Pickaxe Book" is a nickname for "Programming Ruby: The
Pragmatic Programmer's Guide", so dubbed because of the picture of a pickaxe
on the cover. Am I wrong? Are they really two distinct books?

No, they're the same. He's referring to their first (non-Ruby)
book, _The Pragmatic Programmer_.


Hal

 

[Sean Russell]

We haven't decided yet, but it's likely that if we offer a PDF, it's be
deeply discounted for folks who also buy the book. With the existing
(considerably smaller) books, the PDF is $20, the paper $29.95, but the
two together are $37.50. The prices won't be the same for the PickAxe,
but the concept might be.

That would be great, although if you do this, please consider HTML.
It is a little easier to browse HTML than PDF.

--- SER

 

[zuzu]

I could imagine that folks who paid for the PDF early might feel upset
about this.

Cheers

Dave

i'm proposing if this were understood from the beginning. essentially
the arrangement becomes "contribute $20 to the process of making the
PDF available to everyone and receive an advance copy now."

-z