PLEASE help me with this process

[Paul Lalli]

Google by default (as you can see here) is set up in such a way that
netiquette is broken (as far as I know.) When one replies to a
posting, the original post is NOT copied into the edit buffer so
netiquette can be followed.

None of which is a good enough reason for you to break netiquette as
you just did. Instead of clicking Reply, click Show Options near the
top of the message, and click *that* reply link. This is, btw, spelled
out in Google Groups' help files.

Paul Lalli

 

[A. Sinan Unur]

Google by default (as you can see here) is set up in such a way that
netiquette is broken (as far as I know.) When one replies to a
posting, the original post is NOT copied into the edit buffer so
netiquette can be followed.

It is possible to quote properly using the Google interface. Information
on doing so can be found in the Google Groups documentation. You have
chosen not to learn how to use the to you have chosen to use.

Bye.

Sinan

 

[Chris]

None of which is a good enough reason for you to break netiquette as
you just did. Instead of clicking Reply, click Show Options near the
top of the message, and click *that* reply link. This is, btw, spelled
out in Google Groups' help files.

Ah, this is much, much nicer. Definitely the way to go. Thanks for
that very helpful pointer. I have no regrets at all then using GG with
this avail.

-ceo

 

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

It is possible to quote properly using the Google interface. Information
on doing so can be found in the Google Groups documentation.

Yes, it's possible. But if they mention it somewhere deep down in the
documentation, while still providing an interface that encourages the
opposite behaviour, it's plain hypocrisy.

You have chosen not to learn how to use the to you have chosen to use.

I can't understand how you can blame the GG users for this situation, Sinan.

 

[A. Sinan Unur]

Yes, it's possible. But if they mention it somewhere deep down in the
documentation, while still providing an interface that encourages the
opposite behaviour, it's plain hypocrisy.

That is not relevant though: The way to do properly post from Google has
been explained in this group numerous times. Google users do not lurk.
Google users do not search (ironic).

I can't understand how you can blame the GG users for this situation,
Sinan.

I only blame *specific* Google Groups users. Here's the deal: There is a
piece of software in front of me. It doesn't do what I want. Where
should I look first? Maybe there is an *option* to get it to do what I
want ... hmmm ... that's a thought.

Anyway, this has been explained many times in this group. But, just for
reference:

<URL:http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.perl.misc/msg/f1284a41cce93112>

Sinan

 

[Chris]

Yes, it's possible. But if they mention it somewhere deep down in the
documentation, while still providing an interface that encourages the
opposite behaviour, it's plain hypocrisy.


I can't understand how you can blame the GG users for this situation, Sinan.

Agreed, and thank you Gunnar. If it's possible to do using the
instructions I was (very gratefully) given, and as simply as it was,
then it should be the default on Google. Esp. since Google is
considered a bedrock in the internet community. I can't remove blame
completely for not investigating further, but it seems like an easy
thing to have done by default.

And as you can see, when better instructed, my response is immediate.
It's one thing to use bad netiqutte; it's another entirely to defend
one's use of bad netiquette once informed that it is... bad. And I've
seen plenty of users do that (copping their "what's the big deal?"
attitudes.) Now THOSE are candidates for kill files. Everyone needs
correction and better instruction now and then, even seasoned users,
which I gladly accept.

-ceo

 

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

I only blame *specific* Google Groups users. Here's the deal: There is a
piece of software in front of me. It doesn't do what I want. Where
should I look first? Maybe there is an *option* to get it to do what I
want ... hmmm ... that's a thought.

Anyway, this has been explained many times in this group. But, just for
reference:

<URL:http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.perl.misc/msg/f1284a41cce93112>

Is it possible to find the page, from which Paul quoted, by *browsing*
the GG site, or do you need to *search* for e.g. "quote" to find it?

When entering the GG site, you can for instance click "Groups Help" and
then "What is a Google Group?" which takes you here:
http://groups-beta.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=7882

That answer includes neither the term "Usenet" nor "newsgroups". OTOH,
it lets you know that you can create "your own Google Group"...
IMNSHO, Google is trying to compete with Yahoo! Groups and MSN Groups by
hijacking Usenet, and that goal is superior to 'oldfashioned'
netiquette, developed under other techniques for accessing Usenet.

It's of course good that we let the clueless GG-users know that they, to
their surprise, ended up on Usenet (which they had never heard of
before...), and that there is something called "netiquette". But please
blame Google's double-dealing for all this confusion!!

 

[A. Sinan Unur]

Is it possible to find the page, from which Paul quoted, by *browsing*
the GG site, or do you need to *search* for e.g. "quote" to find it?

Google Groups Home Page -> Groups Help

Under the heading "Participating", follow the link for "Posting".

On the resulting page, the fifth item is:

"What's good 'netiquette' when posting to Usenet?"

Frankly, I do not care whose fault it is etc.

When someone is asked to quote an appropriate amount of context, and/or
consult the posting guidelines, if the answer is anything other than
"could you show me how?" or "thank you", he/she goes in the killfile
since last week.

When entering the GG site, you can for instance click "Groups Help"
and then "What is a Google Group?" which takes you here:
http://groups-beta.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=7882

Incidentally, when you do go to "Groups Help", the third link below the
Google logo points to:

But please blame Google's double-dealing for all this
confusion!!

Finally, the last three links under the Google logo are:

More about Groups
Basics of Usenet
Usenet Glossary
Usenet Timeline

I think all of this is getting a little tedious, and off-topic. The
reason I started plonking these people was precisely to avoid wasting
time on this kind of thing

Sinan

 

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

Google Groups Home Page -> Groups Help

Under the heading "Participating", follow the link for "Posting".

On the resulting page, the fifth item is:

"What's good 'netiquette' when posting to Usenet?"

So, it is possible. Thanks!

Frankly, I do not care whose fault it is etc.

If you don't, then how can you throw the blame on anybody? You did just
that at
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.perl.misc/msg/34b906b8e77abfd0
which triggered me to jump into the discussion in the first place.

Incidentally, when you do go to "Groups Help", the third link below the
Google logo points to:

<URL:http://groups-beta.google.com/googlegroups/about.html>

Yes, they also provide less inaccurate descriptions, which is why I was
talking about double-dealing. But the whole way of presenting their
service speaks for itself: GG want to be seen as an alternative to
Yahoo! Groups or MSN Groups, and they care little about netiquette.

Finally, the last three links under the Google logo are:

More about Groups
Basics of Usenet
Usenet Glossary
Usenet Timeline

The default is default is default.

 

[A. Sinan Unur]

A. Sinan Unur wrote:
....

If you don't, then how can you throw the blame on anybody? You did
just that at
http://groups- beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.perl.misc/msg/34b906b8e77abfd0
which triggered me to jump into the discussion in the first place.

I wasn't clear, I guess. I do not care why people using Google Groups
post the way they do. It is the fact that they do post that way, and are
unwilling to adjust their ways (most of them at least), that will get
them plonked. (e-mail address removed) has been posting here for months now, and
in this time he should have been able to figure out how to use the tool
he chose to use.

The default is default is default.

So what? If the default does not do what one needs, then one should
*maybe* check the options.

By the way, I have sent my comments regarding this misfeature to Google.
That is the most I can do. Maybe the people who use Google can complain.

I'll shut up now.

Sinan.

 

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

I do not care why people using Google Groups post the way they do.

Well, I for one think the reason should be taken into consideration when
deciding how to let the posters know why it's inappropriate.

By the way, I have sent my comments regarding this misfeature to Google.

But then you do care, after all.

Which is great.

Wish more people had cared that way. Me, for instance ...

Maybe the people who use Google can complain.

.... and they too, of course.

I'll shut up now.

Me too.

 

[usenet]

By the corporate proxy and firewall in place at my job. No NNTP
programs are allowed access to the outside world. Using a
web-interface is the only way I can get to usenet. And frankly, I'm

Can you ssh out? If so I'd recommend doing what I do - find somewhere
you can have a Linux/Unix shell login, ssh to there and run a text
mode newsreader such as tin or slrn. For that matter there are ssh
clients available on the web so you can run your ssh session in a web
browser.

 

[Paul Lalli]

By the way, I have sent my comments regarding this misfeature to Google.
That is the most I can do. Maybe the people who use Google can complain.

Google must be at least partially listening. They have now given us
the ability to specifically complain about this issue:
http://groups-beta.google.com/suppo...cale=en&contact_type=features&submit=Continue

One of the options for feedback of most requested features is "Default
quoting of previous message in replies"

Paul Lalli