Positioning <form> Input elements ??

[dorayme]

(the operative phrase above is 'done right')

My developing (barely) website is: www.mesaeastpark.com.

Please click on the 'Visit' Button to see how I managed the vertical row
of buttons. Of course, none of the buttons has any substance behind them
(yet).

I see nothing to be concerned with regarding Safari? I see plenty to be
concerned with but! I can honestly say that I do not know where to
begin! Take a look at your pages with browser not maxed out on a big
screen or with bigger user text size.

The table of buttons is sort of ok I think but it is impossible not to
notice how unsatisfactory is the whole effort of the website in all my
modern (non IE) browsers.

May I suggest you don't use frames, the least bit of absolute
positioning for now, you put it aside for a while and spend some time at:

<http://www.htmldog.com/>

You need to get up a bit of speed on overall issues.

(President Obama will be giving a talk at Dobson High School on Tuesday
(I golf at Dobson Ranch Golf course each Wednesday -- its aout 400 yards
north of the High School)

Tues! That does not give me time to write out clear instructions for the
plan I want him to implement for America and the whole earth. I need to
get back to my minders on my home planet.

 

[Mel Smith]

I see nothing to be concerned with regarding Safari? I see plenty to be
concerned with but! I can honestly say that I do not know where to
begin! Take a look at your pages with browser not maxed out on a big
screen or with bigger user text size.

The table of buttons is sort of ok I think but it is impossible not to
notice how unsatisfactory is the whole effort of the website in all my
modern (non IE) browsers.

May I suggest you don't use frames, the least bit of absolute

(I don't even know *how* to use frames ??? )

positioning for now, you put it aside for a while and spend some time at:

<http://www.htmldog.com/>

You need to get up a bit of speed on overall issues.

Thanks for your comments (discouraging though they may be ( )

(but I *will* look at htmldog.com)

-Mel Smith

 

[dorayme]

(I don't even know *how* to use frames ??? )

Sorry, I did not know you were not responsible for the frames. This is
the source of the URL you gave me, www.mesaeastpark.com

....
<FRAMESET border=0 rows="100%,*" frameborder="no" marginleft=0
margintop=0 marginright=0 marginbottom=0>
<frame src="http://ww2.mesaeastpark.com:4296" scrolling=auto
frameborder="no" border=0 noresize>
<frame topmargin="0" marginwidth=0 scrolling=no marginheight=0
frameborder="no" border=0 noresize>
</FRAMESET>
....

And when I clicked the visit button, as instructed by you, I got the
same source in FF but the page you designed within a frame. My Firefox
does not like negotiating framed sites for source and other things to do
with URL display....

Thanks for your comments (discouraging though they may be ( )

(but I *will* look at htmldog.com)

Did not mean to discourage you. But really, what I said I still think is
best for you. Don't use absolute positioning to lay your page out and
look carefully at your page when you emulate a user looking at it with a
reduced width browser: try 800px wide. Also see how someone who likes
bigger text than you is seeing your page by increasing the text size in
your browser controls (just text under the View menu usually

Feel free to have another go without abs positioning and using less px
width boxes that text can easily break out of and come back. You can em
size rectangles. All this is in that tute url I gave you.

 

[Mel Smith]

Sorry, I did not know you were not responsible for the frames. This is
the source of the URL you gave me, www.mesaeastpark.com

...
<FRAMESET border=0 rows="100%,*" frameborder="no" marginleft=0
margintop=0 marginright=0 marginbottom=0>
<frame src="http://ww2.mesaeastpark.com:4296" scrolling=auto
frameborder="no" border=0 noresize>
<frame topmargin="0" marginwidth=0 scrolling=no marginheight=0
frameborder="no" border=0 noresize>
</FRAMESET>

dorayme:

The above bothers me too !

I designed the web page, but use www.zoneedit.com as the DNS server, and
have them 'web forward' my site to ww2.measeastpark.com:4296 (Note the
*ww2.*)

Now, I myself can't 'view' my source at all -- just that darn 'frame'
stuff. How does anyone else get to see my source when *I* can't ??

So, how do I get rid of the frames (which I don't understand anyway ??)

And when I clicked the visit button, as instructed by you, I got the
same source in FF but the page you designed within a frame. My Firefox
does not like negotiating framed sites for source and other things to do
with URL display....



Did not mean to discourage you. But really, what I said I still think is
best for you. Don't use absolute positioning to lay your page out and
look carefully at your page when you emulate a user looking at it with a
reduced width browser: try 800px wide. Also see how someone who likes
bigger text than you is seeing your page by increasing the text size in
your browser controls (just text under the View menu usually

Feel free to have another go without abs positioning and using less px
width boxes that text can easily break out of and come back. You can em
size rectangles. All this is in that tute url I gave you.

O.K., I'll go back to work on it, and *thank you* !!

-Mel Smith
Mesa, Arizona

 

[rf]

So, how do I get rid of the frames (which I don't understand
anyway ??)

Pay for proper hosting. Hosting that does not stuff around with your code.

 

[dorayme]

Now, I myself can't 'view' my source at all -- just that darn 'frame'
stuff. How does anyone else get to see my source when *I* can't ??

So, how do I get rid of the frames (which I don't understand anyway ??)

Depends a bit on your browser I think. I resorted to a Mac browser
called iCab in which you can control click (or right-click on a mouse)
to access a context menu that *actually* takes you to the page you
designed!

Anyway, you know your source! It is others that are sticking it in
frames. I would consider getting a simple hosting package where you have
full control of your files rather than your www.zoneedit.com. But I do
not know your situation and, in any case, others will advise better on
this matter.

 

[Mel Smith]

Depends a bit on your browser I think. I resorted to a Mac browser
called iCab in which you can control click (or right-click on a mouse)
to access a context menu that *actually* takes you to the page you
designed!

Anyway, you know your source! It is others that are sticking it in
frames. I would consider getting a simple hosting package where you have
full control of your files rather than your www.zoneedit.com. But I do
not know your situation and, in any case, others will advise better on
this matter.

Dorayme (and rf):

I do all my *own* hosting on my own machine (an embarassed smirk here)

My situation:

An XP Pro (sp3) machine (beside me) is my Apache 2.2.10 server)

Another XP Pro (sp3) machine (my dev machine) connected on a local
network with the above Apache server machine (both within five feet of one
another)

I develop pages on my dev machine, then (after testing them on IE FF,
Safari, Opera using Windows Explorer), transfer them over the network to the
Apache machine. When a request comes in to apache, an executable
(mepinit.exe) accesses the appropriate page, opens it, does what is needed
to it (usually nothing), then send the page on its way to Apache for onward
transmission to the client.

I only use www.zoneedit.com to allow me to use its DNS, and doing a 'web
forward' to my selected port (4296) on my Apache machine. Both my machines
are behind a router. That router 'listens' to port 4296, and passes traffic
to the apache machine. Also, the windows firewall on the apache machine only
allows traffic on port 4296 to get to Apache.

So, I'm learning 'Apache' as well as trying to learn 'presentation'.
Also, I have another site that I'm also hosting -- but its worse that the
mesaeastpark site (if you can imagine that !)

So, how do I get rid of 'frames'

-Mel Smith
Mesa, Arizona

(btw, President Obama is coming to Mesa, on *Wednesday* (not Tuesday as I
mentioned earlier). Since that's my golf day, and our course is just 400
yards north of where he'll be talking, we'll probably get stuck in a traffic
hold-up near there and miss our teetime ( -- we tee-off at 1025am, he's
scheduled to talk at 10:15am)

 

[Mel Smith]

Well, I found out tonite:

Zoneedit allows their clients to use 'cloaking' to stop the client
seeing 'ww2.mesaeastpark.com:4296', and instead all the viewer sees in their
locator bar is what they originally entered (i.e., www,mesaeastpark.com).

I can easily *stop* this 'cloaking' --- but *should* I ???

-Mel Smith

 

[rf]

I do all my *own* hosting on my own machine (an embarassed smirk
here)

<snipage>

Hmmm. Why go to all that trouble.

You can buy a whole years worth of hosting for less than your upcoming green
fees. And you don't have to worry about backups (well, you do, a bit) and
uptime and stopping attacks etc.

So, how do I get rid of 'frames'

See above

 

[dorayme]

Well, I found out tonite:

Zoneedit allows their clients to use 'cloaking' to stop the client
seeing 'ww2.mesaeastpark.com:4296', and instead all the viewer sees in their
locator bar is what they originally entered (i.e., www,mesaeastpark.com).

I can easily *stop* this 'cloaking' --- but *should* I ???

-Mel Smith

Sounds like hiring a driver for the RRolls, old boy, who offers to put
on funny faces and say scary things while driving. Upside is it wards
off car jackers, downside is you and your golfing mates have to put up
with him.

I had a word to Obama and he is going to fix you up with a simple
external commercial hosting package as part of that stimulus package
that he just got through Congress.

 

[Mel Smith]

Hmmm. Why go to all that trouble.

You can buy a whole years worth of hosting for less than your upcoming
green fees. And you don't have to worry about backups (well, you do, a
bit) and uptime and stopping attacks etc.

rf:

My green fees are cheap $27/person walking and pulling a cart for 18
holes.

But its interesting learning the 'virtual hosting' portion of Apache.
Also, my daughter would like me to host her new site too -- so she can
advertise her services.

Yeah, I was up at 3am this morning during a rainstorm checking for leaks
in my home, and, (of course) decided to check the access logs for attacks on
my site thru my apache Server.

Sure enough, someone who (probably) visits our alt.html ng decided last
nite to start 'sniffing' and 'GETing' stuff. But there's really nothing to
'Get' except a few .jpgs that I show on my website and the executable
itself. Because the pics are innocuous and since the executable is
'compressed' it probably isn't useful to the 'sniffer'. Also, over the past
week or so, I've had several 'sniffers' visit.

Also, this moning there was a bunch more attempts to get into my site
(the rain gets into my 'house' successfully, but I've got buckets around to
catch the drips)

I suppose he/she should 'get-a-life' (or tell me how *I* can protect
myself against *him/her* !!)

(btw, I was thinking of embedding my homemade virus (Trojan-Whores)
inside my mepinit.exe executable. Hmmmm .... but that would be nasty. )

-Mel Smith