Python mascot proposal

[Lenard Lindstrom]

Oooh, I like this one. Very cool!

Its visually stunning. But under Windows gears show up in the DLL
and batch file icons.

Lenard Lindstrom
<[email protected]>

 

[Lenard Lindstrom]

Hey Dimitri,
[snip]

2) We should also bear in mind Guido's oppinion about using a snake for

identifying Python.

I've been googling for this today. So, what exactly is Guido's
opinion on snake logos?

This is taken straight from the Python FAQ:

1.2. Why is it called Python?
Apart from being a computer scientist, I'm also a fan of "Monty Python's
Flying Circus" (a BBC comedy series from the seventies, in the
-- unlikely -- case you didn't know). It occurred to me one day that
I needed a name that was short, unique, and slightly mysterious. And
I happened to be reading some scripts from the series at the time...
So then I decided to call my language Python.

By now I don't care any more whether you use a Python, some other snake,
a foot or 16-ton weight, or a wood rat as a logo for Python!

Of course any official logo would likely require a PEP and the BDFL's
endorcement. But before that it might be an idea to see if it becomes
popular as a de facto logo first.

Lenard Lindstrom
<[email protected]>

 

[James Stroud]

As far as python.png below is concerned, I am reminded of the structure of the
HIV virus: http://www.avert.org/pictures/hivstructure.htm

Pleasing to virologists and drug companies, but as a single, computer-type
guy, it makes my skin crawl in more ways than one.

Here are a couple of images/logos (quite a bit
different from a mascot) I've been working on...

http://exogen.cwru.edu/python.png
http://exogen.cwru.edu/python2.png

If anyone can think of a way to break free of the reptile-oriented
thought process but maintain clear, symbolic imagery, I'd love to see
more suggestions or renditions!

--
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/

 

[Steven Bethard]

Its visually stunning. But under Windows gears show up in the DLL
and batch file icons.

Is that a problem? The fact that they show up in DLLs and batch files
means they're not exclusive to a certain type of file... And neither of
these have pythons winding around them, I believe.

That said, if someone had a really cool mix of python and Monty Python,
I'd probably prefer that...

Steve

 

[Graham Fawcett]

Hey Dimitri,

I completely agree with you in that Python needs once for all a cool
logo.
I like your design very much, but I have a few thoughts about it:

1) I think that Python's logo should reflect its power.
If we use a mascot as its image, we would be giving the wrong idea:
that Python is a "toy" language, instead of a very good alternative to
other mainstream languages.

+1. But I think your logo would be a great identifier for Python when
teaching it to younger students. Perhaps the EDU-SIG/Python in
Education folks might be interested.

The American wrestler Hulk Hogan used to intimidate his opponents by
flexing the muscles of his arms, which he refered to as his "26-inch
Pythons". Now, there's a powerful image that would strike an awe-ful
chord in the hearts of many a thick-glassed geek! "Whatcha gonna do,
when the world's most powerful dynamic language comes after you?"
-- Graham

 

[Adam DePrince]

As far as python.png below is concerned, I am reminded of the structure of the
HIV virus: http://www.avert.org/pictures/hivstructure.htm

Pleasing to virologists and drug companies, but as a single, computer-type
guy, it makes my skin crawl in more ways than one.

The notion of python as a meme, a mental virus, something ubiquitous,
invasive and unavoidable like the common cold or a half time ad isn't
bad. A rebellion against the accusations made by some that open source
code is viral would be nice.

But I agree, python.png is a bit harsh. It screams "rigid,
militaristic, violent." It is also dangerous; if I saw that on the
bumper of an overturned car I wouldn't stop to help -- I'd run like
hell. We don't want Python aficionados to die from lack of medical care
while hazmat teams look up arcane symbols on underpowered field hardened
laptops while wearing inch thick gloves.

When I think of Python in emotional terms. A plush toy like Tux is more
appealing.

As for python2.png ... does the snake get all smushed up in the gear if
it turns?


Adam DePrince

 

[Jive]

I've yet to see a Python logo that I thought was really good. The cartoon
green snake icon is okay, I guess, if a bit cutesy for my taste.

Random thoughts: It is unreasonable to use the name "Python" and not expect
people to associate it with a snake. I say that although I'm a big Python
(Monte) fan from the beginning. I think it would be a bad idea to market
the etymological connection between Python the language and the comedy
group. Always remember that most people are pig-ignorant philistines.
Besides, Monte Python stuff is trademarked and copyrighted.. And what have
you got against snakes, huh? Huh?

Jive

 

[Jive]

P.s. I never could stand Beanie and Cecil.

 

[Lenard Lindstrom]

Is that a problem? The fact that they show up in DLLs and batch files
means they're not exclusive to a certain type of file... And neither
of these have pythons winding around them, I believe.

The only reason I bring it up is there are Python Windows icons for .py, .pyw,
and .pyc files, but not .pyd extension modules. I make do by setting
..pyd files to use the same icon as other DLLs. But if an icon with a
snake and gear is made into the new Windows icon for Python it would
make me think of the .pyd file icon that should have been.

Lenard Lindstrom
<[email protected]>

 

[Andrew Robert]

What about a dead camel?

 

[Keith Dart]

Yup, I was aware of the fact of Monty Python roots of the language name.
However, you will probably agree that a snake is more associative.

Plus, if to use some characteristic MP feature like a giant foot, I'm
not positive that it won't trigger any copyright issues.

I prefer an alternate meaning:

2. A diviner by spirits. ``[Manasses] observed omens, and
appointed pythons.'' --4 Kings xxi. 6 (Douay version).


Since Python is a divine language, and conjures up quick solutions to
ghastly problems. And, in the spirit of oracles, reflects the wisdom of
the languages design.

Now, how about an icon that conveys something like that? hm... smoke
curled around wizard perhaps?


--
\/ \/
(O O)
-- --------------------oOOo~(_)~oOOo----------------------------------------
Keith Dart <[email protected]>
public key: ID: F3D288E4
============================================================================

 

[Terry Hancock]

In reply to the OP, I think the snake mascot drawing is cute and
pretty compelling.

1) I think that Python's logo should reflect its power.
If we use a mascot as its image, we would be giving the wrong idea:
that Python is a "toy" language, instead of a very good alternative to
other mainstream languages.

No way. One of Python's greatest strengths is that it's *friendly*:
easy to learn, easy to recall, easy to re-read after you put it down.
That it is also extremely powerful is something it shares with several
other languages.

A friendly logo can be just as (if not more) compelling than a "cool"
logo.

2) We should also bear in mind Guido's oppinion about using a snake for
identifying Python.

He should've called it "Monty" then. I say we use a snake and *call* it
"Monty". Works for me.

3) And finally, we should consider it very seriously. Image is not
everything, but it is very important for "marketing" a product. I'm
sure that if Java didn't have a cool name and a cool logo, it wouldn't
have been that succesfull.

Okay, fine. The one with sunglasses, then. ;-)

Cheers,
Terry

 

[Dimitri Tcaciuc]

Hm, interesting. So I'm hearing lots of different opinions here, but it
seems like there's not too many radical thoughts about not using snake
at all and it can be pretty much summed up to 2 things
1) use a snake
2) combine snake with -some- monty python's symbolic

I personally totally like the thought of calling the snake Monty, I
couldn't even think of any other alternatives.

But before pushing forward any particular design, maybe it will make
sense to make some sort of official logo contest on Python's main
website and post it on /. ?

That should be a better option, since there obviously are waaay more
great artists out there than the ones that somehow got on these
newsgroups

So the question is, how can this be arranged? I am pretty new to Python
in general, so I don't know how this community's clockwork is arranged
and who to contact about that.

Any opinions?

Dimitri.

 

[Carlos Ribeiro]

Hm, interesting. So I'm hearing lots of different opinions here, but it
seems like there's not too many radical thoughts about not using snake
at all and it can be pretty much summed up to 2 things
1) use a snake
2) combine snake with -some- monty python's symbolic

+1 on both counts.

I personally totally like the thought of calling the snake Monty, I
couldn't even think of any other alternatives.

+1 too.

But before pushing forward any particular design, maybe it will make
sense to make some sort of official logo contest on Python's main
website and post it on /. ?

It's a great marketing idea. There was a thread recently on Python-dev
that started with a message from Guido, where he talks about a
seemingly persistent perception that exists in the specialized press
regarding Python as a flexible, nice, but generally slow (or slower
than the alternatives) language. The thread ended up as a discussion
about Python marketing & advocacy in general. So I think that the
timing is good.

But on the other hand, making this into a open contest takes more than
a simple announcement on Slashdot. Some things need to be arranged
first:

1) Our vote may count, but Guido's opinion not only count, it's
decisive. So I believe that's better for we to hear his opinion before
we even start talking about it seriously.

2) The folks are python-dev are much more involved with Python than
most people that gather around comp.lang.python. Their opinion is also
important. However, to announce it on the python-dev list out of the
blue is not a good idea; the list is highly focused on Python
development issues, and is not the place for this discussion. I would
prefer that some senior member (Guido himself, or some of the other
old-timers) did the announcement on Ptyhon-dev, if only to make people
know about it.

3) Finally, if there's a competition, there must be a decision
process. It may be democratic voting, it may be a comitee, it may be
Guido's opinion, I don't know. But the conditions need to be clear
from the start.

That should be a better option, since there obviously are waaay more
great artists out there than the ones that somehow got on these
newsgroups

So the question is, how can this be arranged? I am pretty new to Python
in general, so I don't know how this community's clockwork is arranged
and who to contact about that.

I don't know... posting it on Python-dev would raise the attention of
some folks, but may bother others, as this is really off-topic there.
As far as I know, Python does not have a official contact for
marketing issues. Maybe if just need to keep going with the discussion
here, until someone who really knows the Python Ways "buys" the idea.

And finally, Dimitri - congratulations for the design, but most
important, for the attitude.

--
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: (e-mail address removed)
mail: (e-mail address removed)

 

[Luis M. Gonzalez]

But before pushing forward any particular design, maybe it will
make
I was waiting for someone to propose that
I'm new to this list and Python in general, but I think that this sort
of things are always decided by Guido.
I think we have two options:

1) Simply start the contest and see what happens. If it attrackts many
competitors, I guess it will be considered by the core developers.
2) Ask for permition and let them define the rules.

Perhaps the BDFL is reading this thread and has something to say about
it?

 

[EP]

It's a great marketing idea. There was a thread recently on Python-dev
that started with a message from Guido, where he talks about a
seemingly persistent perception that exists in the specialized press
regarding Python as a flexible, nice, but generally slow (or slower
than the alternatives) language.

Perception of the press: Python is "flexible, nice, but generally slow"

Well, the snake mascot as drawn is, of course, very flexible, appears to be friendly, and is, well, just how fast is a big snake, esp. a python? It'll get there, slithering along, but it doesn't really conjure up a "beaming" between two galaxies in a nanosecond image.

I like Monty (the snake), but perhaps there are liabilities arising from having a mascot (what is the mascot for C++?)

Of course all those speed comparisons on the web don't help either.



EP

"Fast enough is only fast enough for today, not for tomorrow's possibilities. Network speeds will increase by a magnitude, ahead of processing power - then code execution speed will be a limiting factor."

Oh, and while I'm wishing for the Moon, can I have a builtin Prolog/logic object. ;-)

hey, Python is better than I deserve: mucho thanks to Guido and the core Pythonistas...

 

[Peter Hansen]

Perception of the press: Python is "flexible, nice, but generally slow"

Which press? I know lots of programmers who have religious issues
about (against) Python believe this, or claim to, or want to, but
I haven't seen a lot of "press" coverage of Python's supposed slowness...

Or was this just a guess on your part?

-Peter

 

[sdeibel]

Please note that to make something official, it has to be passed
through the Python Software Foundation, which holds the intellectual
property for Python and is responsible for trademarks associated with
the language.

If you're serious about doing this, you may want to email "psf at
python dot org" to get information from the board of directors (I'm one
of them, BTW, but I can't speak for the whole group).

It would be nice to have a single strongly identifiable visual
trademark for Python. There are many icons/logos that people have
invented but none that's "official" and having many tends to dilute the
ability to build a strong well-known visual trademark.

- Stephan

 

[Stephen Kellett]

Well, the snake mascot as drawn is, of course, very flexible, appears
to be friendly, and is, well, just how fast is a big snake, esp. a
python?

I don't know about Pythons but there is a black snake in Africa (a black
mamba?) that when it stands up is taller than a man. This snake can out
"run" a man in straight line or over rough ground. I saw a TV program
where they'd attached a camera to its head. Absolutely incredible
watching this thing whizzing through the undergrowth in search of a
mate. Don't think all snakes are slow - they aren't.

BTW. The suggestions - I like them, for what little that is worth.

Stephen

 

[Luis M. Gonzalez]

Stephan,

Since you're one of the directors of the Python Software Foundation,
could you let them know about this discussion in order to get their
approval?
If they agree, maybe you can tell us where and how to held the contest.

Just one thought:
I think that it would be good to not determine a deadline for the
contest.
We should let anyone submit their designs until a clear winner shows
up, or until Guido or the board of directors chooses a winner.