rails vs Java Struts

[Felipe Malta de Oliveira]

On an a little off the topic, I am trying to compose a web application with
Java Struts, for my graduation project.Problem is time is running out, and I
keep getting bogged down with the little details and excessive clutter of
hibernate and it's xmls, struts and it's xmls, tiles and it's xmls,
validator and it's xmls...This not to mention the wealth of properties files
too...This is hindering me to no end...

I would really like to do the whole thing in Rails, or another Ruby web
framework if rails does not cover my needs.

The motives for that are:

- Learn Ruby, as I am a nuby and would like to get more profficient in it,
even if here in Brazil people don't even heard of it (most people).
- Simplify the development of my application and accelerate it, as time is
running out...Only 1 month and a half left to deadline.
- Promote Ruby
- Get away from Java.I have enough of it at my daily job.Not that I like it.

Now a little about my application:

It's something like an online auction, but on a much lower scale, and the
other way around.People don't put their products for sale and wait for
potential buyers to bid.Instead, only companies are allowed to register on
the system.Then they schedule a session, and this information is used to
generate e-mails inviting potential suppliers for the product they need to
buy.When the suppliers receive these e-mails, they are informed about the
session and the product and the e-mail also contain a link to a page where
they can confirm their participation.

If there are enough suppliers, then at the time of the session the suppliers
and the contractor log in the system and have a real time auction session
where they take turns bidding, until the number of turns previously
registered by the contractor ends.At the end the one with the lowest price
for the product wins the contract of providing the company with the
product.Simple reports of session statistics are sent to the suppliers and a
more complete report is sent to the company.

That's about it.The features I am interested in a framework are:

- Validation of html forms
- Authentication
- Some kind of template mechanism, for sending the e-mails and the reports
- Some kind of clock mechanism, like Quartz for Java, to deal with the
starting and ending time of the session.

Is it possible to learn Ruby and do it all, alone and single-handed, in just
one month and 15 days? I have 1 to 2 hours per day to spend on this from
monday to friday and the whole saturday and sunday until the succesful
completion (or failure) of the project.

Another obstacle is that even tough the team has 3 components, only myself
knows and likes programming.The other is taking care of layout and html
issues and the other is doing nothing.
If I come to then and tell then we dropped Java I think I will get quite a
reaction, but that is expected.

I hope I made clear my questions and intetions and will be imensely thankful
for any advice the kind people of this list can give me.

Felipe

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Hixson" <[email protected]>
To: "ruby-talk ML" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: rails vs Java Struts

 

[Kirk Haines]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:04:48 +0900, Felipe Malta de Oliveira wrote

That's about it.The features I am interested in a framework are:

- Validation of html forms
- Authentication
- Some kind of template mechanism, for sending the e-mails and the reports
- Some kind of clock mechanism, like Quartz for Java, to deal with
the starting and ending time of the session.

There is a relative wealth of frameworks for web development in Ruby these
days. Some are more actively used or developed with than others. I'm doing
some work on the

http://rpa-base.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.cgi?WebFrameworks

page this evening to add a few more of the frameworks that seem to have some
usage base, and maybe do a bit of fleshing out on the information for some
of the entries. Take a look.

Is it possible to learn Ruby and do it all, alone and single-handed,
in just one month and 15 days? I have 1 to 2 hours per day to spend
on this from monday to friday and the whole saturday and sunday
until the succesful completion (or failure) of the project.

Yes, it is possible, IMHO. Ruby isn't a hard language to get the hang of,
IMHO. My first Ruby project was a moderately large site/app (about 16k
lines of code and HTML) that I did in two weeks using IOWA. I had been
tinkering with Ruby for a few months before, so it's not quite like your
situation, but....it's possible.

My suggestion is to take a few hours and go through some of the
documentation and tutorials on a few of the frameworks and see if one of
them appeals to you. Then take it from there.


Kirk Haines

 

[trans. (T. Onoma)]

It can be done. But it won't be easy in such a short time frame.

If I may make a suggestion, you might be better off using Zope. I might get
flamed for saying that here. But truth be told Zope is pretty good sh*t for
these types of apps, and with a bit of effort you could have a working
version in short order, a couple of weeks even. And it's great for
collaboration. Even your lazy friend might help

Which reminds me, David have you considered merging Rails and Instiki into one
entity to make a Zope killer? Get the Rope! It's hanging time

T.


On Saturday 09 October 2004 08:04 pm, Felipe Malta de Oliveira wrote:
| On an a little off the topic, I am trying to compose a web application with
| Java Struts, for my graduation project.Problem is time is running out, and
| I keep getting bogged down with the little details and excessive clutter of
| hibernate and it's xmls, struts and it's xmls, tiles and it's xmls,
| validator and it's xmls...This not to mention the wealth of properties
| files too...This is hindering me to no end...
|
| I would really like to do the whole thing in Rails, or another Ruby web
| framework if rails does not cover my needs.
|
| The motives for that are:
|
| - Learn Ruby, as I am a nuby and would like to get more profficient in it,
| even if here in Brazil people don't even heard of it (most people).
| - Simplify the development of my application and accelerate it, as time is
| running out...Only 1 month and a half left to deadline.
| - Promote Ruby
| - Get away from Java.I have enough of it at my daily job.Not that I like
| it.
|
| Now a little about my application:
|
| It's something like an online auction, but on a much lower scale, and the
| other way around.People don't put their products for sale and wait for
| potential buyers to bid.Instead, only companies are allowed to register on
| the system.Then they schedule a session, and this information is used to
| generate e-mails inviting potential suppliers for the product they need to
| buy.When the suppliers receive these e-mails, they are informed about the
| session and the product and the e-mail also contain a link to a page where
| they can confirm their participation.
|
| If there are enough suppliers, then at the time of the session the
| suppliers and the contractor log in the system and have a real time auction
| session where they take turns bidding, until the number of turns previously
| registered by the contractor ends.At the end the one with the lowest price
| for the product wins the contract of providing the company with the
| product.Simple reports of session statistics are sent to the suppliers and
| a more complete report is sent to the company.
|
| That's about it.The features I am interested in a framework are:
|
| - Validation of html forms
| - Authentication
| - Some kind of template mechanism, for sending the e-mails and the reports
| - Some kind of clock mechanism, like Quartz for Java, to deal with the
| starting and ending time of the session.
|
| Is it possible to learn Ruby and do it all, alone and single-handed, in
| just one month and 15 days? I have 1 to 2 hours per day to spend on this
| from monday to friday and the whole saturday and sunday until the succesful
| completion (or failure) of the project.
|
| Another obstacle is that even tough the team has 3 components, only myself
| knows and likes programming.The other is taking care of layout and html
| issues and the other is doing nothing.
| If I come to then and tell then we dropped Java I think I will get quite a
| reaction, but that is expected.
|
| I hope I made clear my questions and intetions and will be imensely
| thankful for any advice the kind people of this list can give me.
|
| Felipe
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Charles Hixson" <[email protected]>
| To: "ruby-talk ML" <[email protected]>
| Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 3:58 PM
| Subject: Re: rails vs Java Struts
|
| > Stefan Schmiedl wrote:
| > >On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 05:16:22 +0900,
| > >
| > >>Martin DeMello wrote:
| > >>>http://www.suneido.com/ is interesting too.
| > >>>martin
| > >>
| > >>ery interesting, but MSWind only. So to me it's useless (I can't even
| > >>test it).
| > >
| > >Watch 'em. They're porting the server part to Linux. The switch from
| > >MSVC to gcc is already done, IIRC.
| > >s.
| >
| > But they say the client end will take much work. (They did indicate
| > that moving the server part would be easy.) To me this indicates that I
| > shouldn't expect much until, at best, this time next year. I can't
| > wait for that, even though the concept looks quite good.

--
( o _ カラãƒ
// trans.
/ \ (e-mail address removed)

I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
-Mark Twain

 

[David Heinemeier Hansson]

Which reminds me, David have you considered merging Rails and Instiki

into one entity to make a Zope killer? Get the Rope! It's hanging time

Ha! I'm glad you mention it as it brings up the other nightmare vision
of what I never, ever want Rails to become. Zope, OpenACS, and any
other framework that attempts to solve business domain problems (ACL,
community, content, etc) are something I don't want Rails to become or
even approach.
--
David Heinemeier Hansson,
http://www.rubyonrails.org/ -- Web-application framework for Ruby
http://www.instiki.org/ -- A No-Step-Three Wiki in Ruby
http://macromates.com/ -- TextMate: Code and markup editor for OS
X
http://www.basecamphq.com/ -- Web-based Project Management
http://www.loudthinking.com/ -- Broadcasting Brain
http://www.nextangle.com/ -- Development & Consulting Services

 

[Jamis Buck]

Ha! I'm glad you mention it as it brings up the other nightmare vision
of what I never, ever want Rails to become. Zope, OpenACS, and any other
framework that attempts to solve business domain problems (ACL,
community, content, etc) are something I don't want Rails to become or
even approach.

However, I assume you'd have no objections to a layer built _on top of_
Rails that accomplished those business domain problems? What if there
were made available as third-party "add-ons" or "plug-ins" to Rails?
That would leave the Rails framework itself light and generic, with the
option of adding specific functionality where the consumer needed it.

- Jamis

 

[David Heinemeier Hansson]

However, I assume you'd have no objections to a layer built _on top

of_ Rails that accomplished those business domain problems? What if
there were made available as third-party "add-ons" or "plug-ins" to
Rails? That would leave the Rails framework itself light and generic,
with the option of adding specific functionality where the consumer
needed it.

Oh, no. That would be great stuff indeed! It's just that the thing
called "Rails" is meant only to be infrastructure. Something called, oh
let's say, "Trains" could be a cool project to put business domain
solutions in.

But in general I'm fairly skeptical about generic business domain
solutions. Hence my reservations over OpenACS, Zope, and the like.
--
David Heinemeier Hansson,
http://www.rubyonrails.org/ -- Web-application framework for Ruby
http://www.instiki.org/ -- A No-Step-Three Wiki in Ruby
http://macromates.com/ -- TextMate: Code and markup editor for OS
X
http://www.basecamphq.com/ -- Web-based Project Management
http://www.loudthinking.com/ -- Broadcasting Brain
http://www.nextangle.com/ -- Development & Consulting Services