Return of spinoza1111

[Richard Bos]

Okay, since spinoza does not see any need to take on the challenge,

Myeah... _still_ having that much fun feeding the troll?

Richard

 

[spinoza1111]

Richard Bos said:



Richard: I was recently hauled over the coals for a drop in my S/N
ratio. I took this in the spirit in which it was intended and have
attempted to remedy that situation.

Might I suggest that you take the same view, and try to lift your own
S/N ratio a little? I can't actually remember the last time you
posted a genuinely technical response, so ISTM that at present your
S/N ratio is effectively 0. You can do much, much, much better than
that.

I agree, strangely enough. As far as I can tell, Thomasson, although
programming at a level far deeper than I at this time, had a genuine
question as to whether reference objects can be "double-wide compared
and swapped" (I think that's right) in a friendlier language than C.
As a true professional, he is able to code, as far as I can tell, at
the bare metal level but doesn't suffer from an inflated image
thereby, even as I started out in compiler debugging in machine
language but graduated to more appropriate tools for genuine problems.

I did a little research between classes to discover that apart from
padding and alignment at the bare metal level, C Sharp's current
release does what Thomasson wants, therefore barring some horseshit
prank, we were using this ng as intended: for technical discussion of
C, here the critical question as to whether C is really needed in
modern programming.

I shall continue to link programming with cultural issues because it
pleases me to do so, and I am qualified to do so. "Troll" is as I have
shown, racism in a minor key.

 

[Doug Miller]

"spinoza1111" <[email protected]> wrote in message

[...]

PDFTFT

 

[jameskuyper]

Myeah... _still_ having that much fun feeding the troll?

According to Google Groups, nearly two-thirds of the messages posted
to c.l.c using spinoza111's e-mail address since he started doing so
in November, 2001 have been posted during July and August this year.
Has responding to him been a productive use of their time for any of
the people involved?

 

[spinoza1111]

According to Google Groups, nearly two-thirds of the messages posted
to c.l.c using spinoza111's e-mail address since he started doing so
in November, 2001 have been posted during July and August this year.
Has responding to him been a productive use of their time for any of
the people involved?

I would point out that the Thomasson exchange was technical and about
C, relative to C Sharp. While you contradict yourself massively, yet
are blind to it, for you're discussing ME not C and bemoaning my
participation.

In other words, you assume your hatred is always on topic.

Hatred is always on-topic
Hatred is always germane
Anything else can be called "sick"
Anything else is a pain.
But we treasure our holy hate
And we think it's just great
To find someone we don't like
Today the troll is our Kike.

 

[Chris M. Thomasson]

No problem,

thank you! :^D

t you're doing all the significant work here. I more or
less blindly identified a feature I don't use all that much but seemed
to be what you wanted.

Trust me spinoza, you hit the nail directly on the head. Anyway, here is
full self-contained compliable example code in C and IA-32 asm (MSVC 6.0
and higher) that I am trying to accomplish/mimic in C#:
___________________________________________________________________________ [...]

Is the code at the end of this post what you wanted? I changed cmp to
set it to target so that the equality holds. It is not possible for
CompareExchange to determine whether two objects are internally
identical in all particulars, since equality-of-objects is only
predefined for value objects and strings (and in the case of strings,
there are different theories, such as case sensitivity versus case
insensitivity, as to what constitutes inequality).

[...]

Basically, I need to port the following code to C#:


http://www.java2s.com/Open-Source/J...urrent/atomic/AtomicStampedReference.java.htm


Not sure if I can tolerate the overheads involved wrt creating new objects
on every compare-and-swap operation. These operations might be fairly
frequently accessed by multiple threads. Need to think if its worth porting
the DWCAS based algorithms to C#, let alone Java. Sun's implementation of
`AtomicStamptedReference' makes me sad.

 

[Alan Morgan]

Unless you're being sarcastic and ironic, you're very, very welcome:
for one of the problems here is the solemnity with which reputations
and people are destroyed. I will if necessary write poetry here on the
topic of C and C programmers to change this newsgroup. All poetry will
be original and written in real time for the response unless
identified as a quote or prewritten.

There is a language named C
Designed by Kernighan and Ritchie.
It's an abomination and a pointer to void
Designed for programmers named Mortimer Snoid
That ridiculous language called C.

Whatever you say clearly about C
Has been made wrong by the Standard, you see:
Your knowledge is out of date
Because vendor money we do not hate
We need to make fortunes from C, see?

There once was a pointer and it pointed to void
And there it found the name of Murgatroyd
Followed by NUL.
It was awful
What happened to the bank account of Murgatroyd.

Those are some of the worst limericks I've ever read.

The programming language called C
Is quite tricky, I think you'll agree
Just dereference void
And your code is destroyed
Curse Kernighan and curse Ritchie!

Not a masterpiece, I grant you, but certainly more competent than
your efforts.

Alan

 

[Chris M. Thomasson]

Those are some of the worst limericks I've ever read.

The programming language called C
Is quite tricky, I think you'll agree
Just dereference void
And your code is destroyed
Curse Kernighan and curse Ritchie!

Not a masterpiece, I grant you, but certainly more competent than
your efforts.

I like it.

 

[Chris M. Thomasson]

I do not know why it is necessary to pad structures up to the size of
an L2 cache line, nor why it is necessary to align them on boundaries.

To avoid false-sharing. This happens when two unrelated pieces of shared
data (A, B) are on the same L2 cache-line. Processor P1 should be able to
work with A, while P2 works with B. This work should be able to happen in
parallel and without interference. However, since A and B are on the same
cache like, there is interference in the form of cache invalidations and bus
traffic. The two unrelated pieces of shared data are being "falsely shared"
with each other. You sometimes need to pad out critical shared
data-structures to L2 cache-line size, and then align said structure in
memory on a cache-line boundary. This ensures that datum A and B are on
different cache-lines and will not interfere with each other. Here is crude
example of how to do this in C:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.programming.threads/msg/3336ff0ac7165d53

To me this is a job for the runtime.

It certainly could be.

But I agree that in most systems
this might mean a thrilling return to C and MASM.
;^)




However, C Sharp provides for simulating C unions by allowing
directives that back member origins back up to the start of the
previous structure member in a way which hides member lengths. It may
also provide a directive to force the size of a structure to some
convenient power of two which in general is what things like fast
caches want, right?

It would be ideal if I can pad to 128-bytes, or perhaps 64-bytes. Some Intel
processors have 128-byte cache split into two 64-byte regions. UltraSPARC T1
has 64-byte. IIRC, PPC has 64-byte.

Alternatively, the C sharp programmer could measure the size of the
data structure (easy when it contains only data, very very hard when
it contains code) and add extra dummy variables to pad. Or, the
compiler could do this. It can also align to powers of two boundaries.

This can be done without exiting managed code.

Excuse my ignorance, but I don't know C# well enough to pull this off. Can
you port the C hack alignment code I posted to C#? I think I can add enough
padding to "basically" ensure that data is not falsely shared, but on the
other hand it could be pretty wasteful in terms of object size. Think of
something like:
___________________________________________________________________
struct l2_pad_64 {
System.Int64 m_pad1;
System.Int64 m_pad2;
System.Int64 m_pad3;
System.Int64 m_pad4;
System.Int64 m_pad5;
System.Int64 m_pad6;
System.Int64 m_pad7;
System.Int64 m_pad8;
};

struct l2_pad_128 {
l2_pad_64 m_pad1;
l2_pad_64 m_pad2;
};

class shared_object {
l2_pad_128 m_l2_pad1;
volatile int m_state;
l2_pad_128 m_l2_pad2;

// [...]
};
___________________________________________________________________


[...]

 

[Ben Bacarisse]

Basically, I need to port the following code to C#:

<snip link to java code>

Now that C is no longer involved (your message was about porting some
Java to C#) it might be better to trim c.l.c from the newsgroups or to
set a followup (I have done so).

I suspect that you won't get a lot of help from comp.programming
either. A Java group or a C# one would seen the more natural home for
this issue.

 

[Ben Bacarisse]

The programming language called C
Is quite tricky, I think you'll agree
Just dereference void
And your code is destroyed
Curse Kernighan and curse Ritchie!

Not a masterpiece, I grant you, but certainly more competent than
your efforts.

The trouble is there is no 'void' that might be dereferenced. Maybe:

Just dereference NULL
and the chances are you'll
be asking on comp lang dot C.

 

[spinoza1111]

Alan Morgan said:

If a programming language is obfusc base overcomplex tricky
If it makes low fellows into experts, like our "Dickie"
And if true expertise it undercuts and disdains as it did to Nash,
And it makes noble plans of gentleman come to a great and glooming
Smash,
The conclusion is as plain as bluenosed bottle Jane:
This is a language the gentleman must disdain.
For lo! the man who seeks a permanent and lasting truth
Seeks first a new language in which to express it: forsooth
Did Hindoo forsooth did adept first try to cleanse the language of
Shame
And created Sansckrit, an ancient language of ancient Fame.
HOMER created Greek, the language of the Hellas
To sing of Achilles' wrath and Odysseus' noble Fellas.
Thus ever the Hero doth the common tongue abjure
To speak of important things in accents cleansed and pure.

Here are some in a more positive vein:

There's a programming language called C
We can use *anywhere*, you'll agree.
Curiosity brimming?
You'll have to go swimming
To see how to C in the sea.

To swim in C as in the South China sea
Where I live so merrily,
You must as I must move through a line of scunge
Plastic bags, hypodermics, bottles waste and grunge.

Than the C language what could be cuter
To program a modern computer?
I would recommend C
For your binary tree
But remember you'll need a good tutor.

Those who cannot "do", they shall often teach:
Those who cannot teach or who hath been impeach'd
Are often seen to be a Tutor
Teaching how to use a Roto Rooter.

In the modern competitive sphere,
You'll be needing a language that's clear;
For full portability,
Performance, simplicity,
Let's give the C language a cheer!

Help small businesses fail
Send data to the bit bucket and pail
C is tool, if you're a Fool
And to your user you'd like to be Cruel!

 

[spinoza1111]

(e-mail address removed) (Alan Morgan) writes:




The trouble is there is no 'void' that might be dereferenced.  Maybe:

    Just dereference NULL
    and the chances are you'll
    be asking on comp lang dot C.

Truth 1, poetry nought.

 

[spinoza1111]

Those are some of the worst limericks I've ever read.

The programming language called C
Is quite tricky, I think you'll agree
  Just dereference void
  And your code is destroyed
Curse Kernighan and curse Ritchie!

Not a masterpiece, I grant you, but certainly more competent than
your efforts.

....more "competent" if we're writing limericks for a corporate
brochure so as not to offend some corporate thug. But less literate
and less imaginative. Give it up. Your limerick has no POV and has an
internal rhyme and sound break in line 2.

The rhymes with C are weak. The poet hasn't studied rhyme strength and
is unable to come up with "Murgatroyd" to rhyme with "pointer to
void". Precisely because C rhymes with so many words the poet needs to
surprise the reader.

You think mine are "bad" because you have no ear. You're like the
modern reader who stops at Kipling because he cannot "hear" what Yeats
and Eliot are trying to say, lacking their cultural literacy.

There is a reader and 'is lips move when 'e reads
He buys the evening Standard and in the Letters column 'e pleads
For a return to the "good old days" of "rhyming poetry"
But this is because chap's got no cult'ral lit'racy!

He bays old songs at football games and he don't even know the words
But is ready to boast of 'is "Island Race" and at the black fellows to
throw turds
'E should 'ang 'is 'ead in bloomin' shame so says Kipling's laughing
Ghost
Because 'e don't know 'is own culture: it's just tea and butter'd
toast!

And, G-d forbid that he should a Yank to have to thank
For bein' better at his Tongue than 'e is:
For knowin' more than the pub ranter and bore
About 'is own tradition!



But much worse you transform a decent exchange based on a mutual sense
of humor between Thomasson and I, that became an ontopic problem
solving session, back to your grim and lower middle class little
struggle to dominate this newsgroup, a struggle lacking grace and
humour because you can't dominate anything else.

 

[spinoza1111]

Spinoza thinks he can
A rhyming poem plan
But verses do not scan
The syllables have ran

Ant sacrifices grammar, Ant sacrifices sense
To doggerel rhyme at the expense
Of Poetry, which Ant
Can't.
Write.
On this or any other night.

Ant knows his terminology, he says I do not "scan"
In verse that scans no better than garbage cans
Clashed clanging in the jangor of banging morning
By ignorant waste haulers of the dawn.

To those who dine upon shite
Only shite is gonna sound right.
To those who feed daily upon trash
The fine and good are there for us to smash.

Poetic licence taken
Shall not save his bacon
Rhythm was forsaken
That's the indication

Ant leafs through his Thesaurus
Ant crawls through his Rhyming Pictionary
Ant labors and Ant strains
But is washed away when it rains.

Ant, I'd quit while I was ahead,
Or in your case half a league or more behind
Lest you seem the meanest Hind.
Learn some more Vocabulary
Else on Parnassus do not tarry.

 

[spinoza1111]

Spinoza thinks he can

Spinoza knows he can but your efforts they are canned Spam

A rhyming poem plan

Spinoza don't plan because he can write with great Might
And not all poems Rhyme, all the time, because meter is more important
Your efforts are therefore impotent.

But verses do not scan

Whose verses do not scan? You lose the sense and invite wags to insert
the possessive pronoun:

Spinoza thinks he can/A rhyming poem plan/But my verses do not scan/
And the critics they me Pan

Even better would be

Spin knows, ah, that he can
Make a poem to rhyme and scan
But my verses are no good
My day job quit I not should

The syllables have ran

Poetic licence taken
Shall not save his bacon
Rhythm was forsaken
That's the indication

The only missing meter is the meter in your mind
You are unable to hear it because you are tone deaf
Get your meter out of hock and surely you will find
Your poetry improving. Get your head out of your Behind,
And learn your hairy Ass from your skinny Elbow:
Ye foolish charmless unmetrical
Bonehead and asexual
Scurvy arrant lousy Fellow.

 

[luserXtrog]

Even better would be

Spin knows, ah, that he can
Make a poem to rhyme and scan
But my verses are no good
My day job quit I not should

Sounds like Yoda's impression of Churchill.

Incidentally I agree with you that rime and rithme
are not the only materials with which to construct
a coherent poetical framework. In Old English that
task was often performed by aliteration.

Being a largely uninflected language, English has
a relative paucity of rimes (as compared to, say,
Italian).

My personal favorite of late is metered blank verse.
Rithme with the conspicuous absence of rime.
eg, Lou Reed.

 

[spinoza1111]

It appears good to me
The pieces of excrement
As they along the effluent tunnel drift
And when they are within reach
I impale them with a sharp instrument


This Ant did hit the spot
Consulted tomes were not
Spinoza's work is shot
He's talking tommy-rot

And followed me up twice
With verse that wasn't nice
I must have got his goat
His poetry is bloat


He thinks a bigger word
May more impress the herd
And I am just a nerd
Who's flipping him the bird

It appears good to me
The pieces of excrement
As they along the effluent tunnel drift
And when they are within reach
I impale them with a sharp instrument

Now that was a really bad Poem
It fails Grammatically
I suggest that now you go home
Your poetry is tragicomedy!

This Ant did hit the spot
Consulted tomes were not
Spinoza's work is shot
He's talking tommy-rot

Don't break Grammar's back to make a rhyme
And there was no need to use "tomes",
For I do not consult 'em, I have not the time.
"Tomes" is not the mot juste it's just a common pretentious word
Known by many in the runaday herd,

And followed me up twice
With verse that wasn't nice
I must have got his goat
His poetry is bloat

What meaneth thou when you say "bloat"?
'Tis the argument of the man who's shot his bolt,
Who stands a-gaping at a loss for words,
While mine circle in a gyre jeering at him like the Parliament of
birds.
Don't give me no bullshit I won't give you no lies
Your stuff is as weak as cold treacle pies.

He thinks a bigger word
May more impress the herd
And I am just a nerd
Who's flipping him the bird

Yes you are just a nerd
And yes you try to flip me the bird
But the booger on your finger gets in your eye
And then you cry oh my oh my.

The common man calls language "verbose" and whines about "big words"
Suspecting that the wool is being pulled over his eyes by turds.
But in fact he's overwhelmed and defeated not at all by letters
It's ideas that stun him, ideas proposed and then disposed by his
elders and his betters.

You thought to be thoughtless and use words to dismiss
You fall whining and crumple up with a hiss.
Like Cyrano I have you *en brochette*
Defeated by your own ill designs, I'd hasard, I'd bet:
Hoist high to Heaven in front of God and everybody
By your pathetic petard of poor proposed non-poetry.
You've wasted my time, you pathetic slime, and that of this newsgroup
And now you're drinking Humiliation soup.
Drink it all, by St, Paul, 'tis good for your vanity
I shall deal with you as I shall take care of Sean Hannity.
Sic semper loudmouths vain fools and low company
Who rush in where angels fear to tread,
And wind up half dead.
When I've done with thee
Your standing will be toast and tea!

"Men of all sorts take a pride to gird at mee: the braine of this
foolish compounded Clay-man, is not able to inuent any thing that
tends to laughter, more then I inuent, or is inuented on me. I am not
onely witty in my selfe, but the cause that wit is in other men."

- Henry IV part 2 William Shakespeare: but 'tis a feeble Witte I cause
with greater Witte.

"Voilà ce qu'à peu près, mon cher, vous m'auriez dit
Si vous aviez un peu de lettres et d'esprit:
Mais d'esprit, ô le plus lamentable des êtres,
Vous n'en eûtes jamais un atome, et de lettres
Vous n'avez que les trois qui forment le mot: sot !
Eussiez-vous eu, d'ailleurs, l'invention qu'il faut
Pour pouvoir là, devant ces nobles galeries,
Me servir toutes ces folles plaisanteries,
Que vous n'en eussiez pas articulé le quart
De la moitié du commencement d'une, car
Je me les sers moi-même, avec assez de verve,
Mais je ne permets pas qu'un autre me les serve."

- Edmund Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac

 

[spinoza1111]

Sounds like Yoda's impression of Churchill.

Popular culture, in replacing high culture, makes us dine on fifty
years of garbage made to profit.

Incidentally I agree with you that rime and rithme
are not the only materials with which to construct
a coherent poetical framework. In Old English that
task was often performed by aliteration.

Being a largely uninflected language, English has
a relative paucity of rimes (as compared to, say,
Italian).

Having left the programming field (perhaps like MacArthur I shall
return) in disgust after thirty years I now teach creative writing,
and I say,

Get the metre right, build it square and build it tight
And then before your gum you can swallow
The rhyme will come: it sure will follow.

But in metre 'tis the exception that proves the rule:
Dull fellows plod on with a hobgoblin'd consistency
The grace notes and the line heavy and stretchy
That is what makes a poem, not the rules you learned in school.

And when they say "it doesn't scan"
They are usually the also-ran.

My personal favorite of late is metered blank verse.
Rithme with the conspicuous absence of rime.
eg, Lou Reed.

My blank my verse this darkness I acknowledge
I shall not rhyme: shall I get most iambic now?

 

[[Jongware]]

I suggest inviting that MI5 guy in, as well.

Didn't hear from him over here for a while. Now you got me worried -- although I
s'pose it would be the acme of futility asking "Would he still be allright?"

[Jongware]