RubyForge project and gem distriubtion

[Dave Thomas]

In fact, I quoted your Kata text because it seemed to me like it was
inconsistent with the idea you seem to be suggesting here,
(that the rpa guys should drop their project, or be assimilated by
rubygems)

No, no no!!

I never said that, nor did I mean to imply it. I feel that RPA adds a
layer on top of Gems: the RPA folks could have used Gems for
distribution (possibly augmenting it with stuff they needed for trust
information etc), and continued to add value on top in terms of
packaging. Gems is valuable. RPA increases that value by produced
trusted groups of packages.

Frankly, I'm sad that there seems to be some kind of contest going on
here. It seems unnecessary and divisive. It shouldn't be a question of
Gems or RPA. It is unseemly for any side to be knocking the other (and
I have to say that so far the knocking seems to originate from the RPA
side of this unfortunate fence).

Instead, it seems like it would be more productive for the teams to get
together to work out synergies and produce a unified system the
benefits everyone.

I'm going to drop out of this thread now.


Cheers

Dave

 

[Chad Fowler]

On Aug 13, 2004, at 11:09, vruz wrote:

Instead, it seems like it would be more productive for the teams to get
together to work out synergies and produce a unified system the
benefits everyone.

What isn't really coming out in this thread is that (at least)
Mauricio and I speak about RPA and RubyGems fairly often, mostly via
IRC. We've talked about ways that RPA and gems can work together. I
agree that the RPA idea has the potential to add value on top of gems
(or RPA-base in the most obvious case). To be fair about the
knocking, you'll notice that there isn't much knocking coming from the
actual creator of RPA or the creators of RubyGems. We're certainly at
philosophical odds at times, but we try not to defame or devalue each
other's work.

Ultimately more and better code/libraries that are easy to find and
install make the Ruby community and language stronger. RPA and
RubyGems are both altruistically striving to help meet that need, but
with different goals and from different perspectives.

 

[David Ross]

I never said that, nor did I mean to imply it. I
feel that RPA adds a
layer on top of Gems: the RPA folks could have used
Gems for
distribution (possibly augmenting it with stuff they
needed for trust
information etc), and continued to add value on top
in terms of
packaging. Gems is valuable. RPA increases that
value by produced
trusted groups of packages.

Frankly, I'm sad that there seems to be some kind of
contest going on
here. It seems unnecessary and divisive. It
shouldn't be a question of
Gems or RPA. It is unseemly for any side to be
knocking the other (and
I have to say that so far the knocking seems to
originate from the RPA
side of this unfortunate fence).

Instead, it seems like it would be more productive
for the teams to get
together to work out synergies and produce a unified
system the
benefits everyone.

This can't happen, chad already said he had different
goals. QA is not on his list. See Below.

[cut/paste from other email]

I have to disagree. Batsman has plans for rpa-base and
how they are packaged. RubyGems would not even follow
the way batsman is going. Also, I suppose rpa-base
could temporarily use rubygems packages, but again,
batsman has a bigger, better vision. He has studied
package managers for the past 6 months. He studied the
mistakes they make, how they could be better, and how
they work. Also to bring to attention. Batsman
generously gave RubyGems part of the package scheme
code. Wasn't that nice of him?

[end cut/paste]


----------------------------------
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-- Phone: 865.539.3798
-- Email: drossruby [at] yahoo.com
----------------------------------



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[Chad Fowler]

i think the great ones realize there is nothing else but practice sessions.

I understand where you're coming from, but speaking as a musician
(maybe not a "great" one, but I definitely played/associated with some
great ones), I disagree. My reasons are probably best expressed here:

http://www.chadfowler.com/index.cgi/Computing/ValuelessSoftware.html

This is a topic I'm very passionate about. Excuse me if it's little
OT for ruby-talk.

Chad

 

[Chad Fowler]

This can't happen, chad already said he had different
goals. QA is not on his list. See Below.

QA'ing other people's code and filtering out the bad stuff is not a
priority. There's nothing stopping someone else (as Rich, Dave, and I
have both said) from doing a QA'd gem repository.

I'm going to follow Dave's lead on this one and say goodbye to this
thread for now. Need to spend more time coding and less time
chatting.

Chad

 

[David Ross]

(or RPA-base in the most obvious case). To be fair

about the
knocking, you'll notice that there isn't much
knocking coming from the
actual creator of RPA or the creators of RubyGems.
We're certainly at
philosophical odds at times, but we try not to
defame or devalue each
other's work.

It wasn't knocking, it was stating that there need not
*any* pacakge manager in the ruby-core.
That is a good that the developers do not have a
biased opinion, or they would be blamed with pretty
baby syndrome. hmmmm.. I also change my mind about
lothar being a troll, he is suffering pretty baby
syndrome, just like 100%~ of the developers out there.
Anyway, that was a waste to explain P.B.S.
*irrelavant*


-------------------------------------------
-- Name: David Ross
-- Phone: 865.539.3798
-- Email: drossruby [at] yahoo.com
-------------------------------------------



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[Ara.T.Howard]

I understand where you're coming from, but speaking as a musician
(maybe not a "great" one, but I definitely played/associated with some
great ones), I disagree. My reasons are probably best expressed here:

http://www.chadfowler.com/index.cgi/Computing/ValuelessSoftware.html

This is a topic I'm very passionate about. Excuse me if it's little
OT for ruby-talk.

Chad

interesting read chad-

i'm just coming from a different place i guess, for instance, i'd change the
line

Whether it's music, programming, work, or life in general, you generally spend
a lot more time on the "path" than you do at the "goal".

to

Whether it's music, programming, work, or life in general, you actually
spend the entire time on the "path" - never "arriving" at the "goal".

and i suppose that would explain the disagreement. in any case my statement
was meant to convey that all releases are practice, not neccessarily that all
practice should be released.

kind regards.

-a
--
===============================================================================
| EMAIL :: Ara [dot] T [dot] Howard [at] noaa [dot] gov
| PHONE :: 303.497.6469
| A flower falls, even though we love it;
| and a weed grows, even though we do not love it.
| --Dogen
===============================================================================

 

[James Britt]

You should join us this year in Virginia!

Well, I'm giving a presentation, so I expect to be there.

I'm sure there will be
something new going on in the hotel bar. To me, that's one of the
most enjoyable things about a conference like RubyConf. Getting
together with smart people and doing something creative.

My brother lives in Manassas, one town over. He'll be traveling while
the conference is on, which works out OK, since, as you say, much of the
better stuff happens after the talks.

Not, of course, that I mean to denigrate the fine speakers.

BTW, will there be any Wi-Fi access points, local networks, or other
such infrastructure?

See y'all there.

James

 

[Chad Fowler]

I meant join us in coding. I knew you were going to be there of course

My brother lives in Manassas, one town over. He'll be traveling while
the conference is on, which works out OK, since, as you say, much of the
better stuff happens after the talks.

Not, of course, that I mean to denigrate the fine speakers.

BTW, will there be any Wi-Fi access points, local networks, or other
such infrastructure?

We'll have local networks and will build our own Wi-Fi network(s).

Chad

 

[Curt Hibbs]

Well, I'm giving a presentation, so I expect to be there.



My brother lives in Manassas, one town over. He'll be traveling while
the conference is on, which works out OK, since, as you say, much of the
better stuff happens after the talks.

I *used* to live in Manassas.

I wish I still did because *really* want to come to the conference.
Unfortunately, I can't make it, so I'll have to rely on second-hand reports
to follow the action. :-(

Perhaps the next RubyConf can be in Saint Louis -- being in the middle of
the country makes it equally accessible to most everywhere... and especially
since I'd would definitely be able to attend!

Curt

 

[James Britt]

I meant join us in coding. I knew you were going to be there of course

Well, I'll have to periodically acknowledge my S.O., who'll be traveling
with me (she's a saint, actually), but yes, I hope to engage in some
productive hacking, occasionally interspersed with food and sleep.

We'll have local networks and will build our own Wi-Fi network(s).

Very good!

James

 

[stevetuckner]

Perhaps the next RubyConf can be in Saint Louis -- being in the middle of
the country makes it equally accessible to most everywhere... and especially
since I'd would definitely be able to attend!

Curt

I want to second that notion. I have flown to Tampa and Seattle and
driven to Texas, all from Minneapolis. I would love to see a midwestern
Ruby Conference.

Of course who wants to go to the midwest in November :-(

Steve Tuckner

 

[Chad Fowler]

I want to second that notion. I have flown to Tampa and Seattle and
driven to Texas, all from Minneapolis. I would love to see a midwestern
Ruby Conference.

Of course who wants to go to the midwest in November :-(

Exactly

We do try to move them around for the reasons you guys are bringing
up. Last year, we wanted to be in CST but we didn't want to freeze to
death. Thus, Austin was the place.

We're certainly open to suggestions for where the conferences are
going to be. We have certain criteria that need to be met:
* Not horribly expensive. We tend to lose (our personal) money on
this thing and don't want to lose too much.
* Hopefully not freezing cold or blisteringly hot.
* Easy for international travelers (e.g. Matz) to get to
* Not horibbly expensive.
* Others I'm not thinking of right now.

Of course, the "expensive" part could be offset with the right
sponsorship, which we're now in the position to receive/support given
our tax-exempt status. Any takers?

Chad

 

[stevetuckner]

Exactly

We do try to move them around for the reasons you guys are bringing
up. Last year, we wanted to be in CST but we didn't want to freeze to
death. Thus, Austin was the place.

My understanding was that in the past, we were following OOPSLA around
(but not this year? It seems that it is in Vancouver). So if we are not
neccesarily tied to OOPSLA, then Minneapolis, or Chicago or St. Louis
would be fine with nice leaf colors in late September or early October.

Steve Tuckner

 

[David A. Black]

Hi --

My understanding was that in the past, we were following OOPSLA around
(but not this year? It seems that it is in Vancouver). So if we are not
neccesarily tied to OOPSLA, then Minneapolis, or Chicago or St. Louis
would be fine with nice leaf colors in late September or early October.

We followed OOPSLA around for two years; then they went to Anaheim and
we stopped Those first two years were in Tampa and Seattle, so that
set a pattern we liked for moving around and rotating timezones.


David

 

[James Britt]

My understanding was that in the past, we were following OOPSLA around
(but not this year? It seems that it is in Vancouver). So if we are not
neccesarily tied to OOPSLA, then Minneapolis, or Chicago or St. Louis
would be fine with nice leaf colors in late September or early October.

I believe last year was the first time without tagging along with OOPSLA.

I would prefer some larger city. Chicago sounds nice.

(I also keep hoping everyone will rally behind the idea of Phoenix or
Santa Fe or Vegas, but ... )


James

 

[Austin Ziegler]

I believe last year was the first time without tagging along with OOPSLA.

I would prefer some larger city. Chicago sounds nice.

(I also keep hoping everyone will rally behind the idea of Phoenix or
Santa Fe or Vegas, but ... )

Chicago *would* be nice. I'm still gunning to have it in Toronto at
some point, though.

-austin

 

[James Britt]

Chicago *would* be nice. I'm still gunning to have it in Toronto at
some point, though.

Good choice. Well, after NYC, my birthplace.




James

 

[stevetuckner]

Chicago *would* be nice. I'm still gunning to have it in Toronto at
some point, though.

-austin

Toronto would be nice and it is sort of midwesternish (about a 15 hour
drive from here).

Steve Tuckner

 

[Austin Ziegler]

Good choice. Well, after NYC, my birthplace.

Toronto is still EST, but it's reasonably cheap and easy to get to.
Plus, I live here

Whether that's an advantage is something that you'll have to decide
after RubyConf '04.

Beside that, though, I'm friends with a gent at IBM who works in
university relations up here (he doles out a bit of money for directed
CS research, I think) who might be interested in doing something in
that direction. I need to get him information on Ruby (he'd not heard
of it before), but if I can get him to sponsor some research (right
now, I would find Ruby on the AS/400 really useful) ... who knows?

-austin