scrollbars: required standards or tradition?

[C A Upsdell]

Just to see how it would look, I tried putting the scrollbar of a

People have been brainwashed into thinking that because it's always
done that way, that is the only way it can be done.

If one wants to advance technology, then one must think "outside of
the box" instead of living within it.

So are you a sheeple or a shepherd?

So, if we put content in two columns, we should put the scroll bar in
the centre?

Or perhaps we can add excitement to the user's experience and place the
scrollbar at random positions: now *that* is truly thinking outside the
box ... as well as inside the straight-jacket ;-)

 

[richard]

So, if we put content in two columns, we should put the scroll bar in
the centre?

Or perhaps we can add excitement to the user's experience and place the
scrollbar at random positions: now *that* is truly thinking outside the
box ... as well as inside the straight-jacket ;-)

If thomas edison had given up, would we be here today as we are?

 

[asdf]

If thomas edison had given up, would we be here today as we are?

Arrant nonsense. Edison had original, useful ideas. You are proposing
changing something for something new for the sake of newness, and not for
any functional reason.

Using your logic, if we could have square incandecent light globes we
should, because they are different from the bulb shaped ones.

You are proposing changing something for the *wrong reasons*. Your reason
for changing the scrollbar is that it is different, and NOT because it
actually improves the utilitiarian value of same.

Woolly thinking perhaps?

 

[dorayme]

Arrant nonsense. Edison had original, useful ideas. You are proposing
changing something for something new for the sake of newness, and not for
any functional reason.

It is not arrant nonsense. Richard is the future and you and I are the
past. He is our hope. I say more strength to his left (scrolling) hand.

 

[asdf]

It is not arrant nonsense. Richard is the future and you and I are the
past. He is our hope. I say more strength to his left (scrolling) hand.

How sinister ('Sinestre' .... j/k)

 

[rf]

It is not arrant nonsense. Richard is the future and you and I are the
past. He is our hope. I say more strength to his left (scrolling)
hand.

Nothing pisses me off more than to suddenly realize, half way through a
tennis match, that my out wide ad court serves with spin to put them into
the fence are coming back all the time because the bloke standing in that
corner is... left handed

If I see a scroll bar then I expect the stuff to the *left* of it to go up
and down. Just like when I see a scroll bar at the bottom of the page I
expect the stuff to move left and right, not up and down.

Takes me ages to get the lights working when I go to the U S of A. Why can't
"move the switch *down* to activate" be the same everywhere?

 

[dorayme]

....

If I see a scroll bar then I expect the stuff to the *left* of it to go up
and down. Just like when I see a scroll bar at the bottom of the page I
expect the stuff to move left and right, not up and down.

These are mere Humean expectations, be careful of being like Bertrand
Russell's chicken.

"The man who has fed the chicken every day throughout its life at last
wrings its neck instead, showing that more refined views as to the
uniformity of nature would have been useful to the chicken."

Richard is going to transform the face of the web and you can either get
on board and be alive to uncommon experiences or be left behind. There
is no use at all carping from the sidelines. It is going to be basic,
and it is going to run, and in unexpected directions.

 

[John Hosking]

How sinister ('Sinestre' .... j/k)

Don't be so gauche.

BTW: Your automatic and manual .sig trimming mechanisms are both broken.

 

[Harlan Messinger]

Years ago during one superbowl there was an advertisement that
appeared only once and changed the way things were done.

People have been brainwashed into thinking that because it's always
done that way, that is the only way it can be done.

If one wants to advance technology, then one must think "outside of
the box" instead of living within it.

So are you a sheeple or a shepherd?

In other words, we should appreciate the scrollbar on the left because
it makes you look creative? (As far as creativity goes, "Hey, let me put
this thing that's usually on the right, on the left instead" is right up
there with, "Hey, I always watch TV from the left side of the couch. Let
me try sitting on the right side of the couch!")

There is a very good reason why uniform ways of doing many things
involved. Familiarity makes life a lot easier for everybody. Look up the
concept of "usability".

If there were a substantial *advantage* to putting the scrollbar on the
left, it could be worth trying, but (a) there isn't any and (b) if there
were, it would have been figured out a long time ago.

 

[Harlan Messinger]

If thomas edison had given up, would we be here today as we are?

Huh? Thomas Edison came up with new and useful inventions. Putting the
scrollbar on the left is not a new and useful invention.

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Harlan Messinger

There is a very good reason why uniform ways of doing many things
involved. Familiarity makes life a lot easier for everybody. Look up the
concept of "usability".

If there were a substantial *advantage* to putting the scrollbar on the
left, it could be worth trying, but (a) there isn't any and (b) if there
were, it would have been figured out a long time ago.

I can see where this might come in handy if one were reading from right
to left.

I read from left to right, so as my eyes get to the end of line (on the
right), I see that scroll bar and know I can scroll down to see the rest
of the content. If the scroll bar were on the left, then I would have
to take my eyes back to their original position (left) to see the scroll
bar again, and in so doing this, might lose my place.

 

[Harlan Messinger]

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Harlan Messinger


I can see where this might come in handy if one were reading from right
to left.

Well, yes, I already supposed that that might be the default for RTL
writing systems.

 

[asdf]

[snip]

These are mere Humean expectations, be careful of being like Bertrand
Russell's chicken.

"The man who has fed the chicken every day throughout its life at last
wrings its neck instead, showing that more refined views as to the
uniformity of nature would have been useful to the chicken."

Richard is going to transform the face of the web and you can either get
on board and be alive to uncommon experiences or be left behind. There
is no use at all carping from the sidelines. It is going to be basic,
and it is going to run, and in unexpected directions.

Aye, there's the rub. If it runs in unexpected directions, then it itself
will become sidelined, because it becomes awkward to use.

A bicycle with square wheels is uncommon, but I bet I could catch it on my
round-wheeled version.

 

[asdf]

Because that's how the world works.

Huh? Not the world I live in, matey.

[snip]

 

[asdf]

Don't be so gauche.

Touche!

[snip]

 

[dorayme]

A bicycle with square wheels is uncommon,

Funny you should say this, I am just now working on a sort of wheel that
is bent at a diametrical line (through its normal one plane), in an
effort make it more easily take corners.

 

[Neredbojias]

Depends on the shape of the road.

http://pages.usiouxfalls.edu/maa/newsletters/Macalester.squarewheels.S
W.editedcropped.S04.jpg

Yeahbut a similar wheel with concave sides would provide a much
smoother ride.

 

[asdf]

Funny you should say this, I am just now working on a sort of wheel that
is bent at a diametrical line (through its normal one plane), in an
effort make it more easily take corners.

Like a motorcycle tyre? Look at a big bike's rear wheel!

 

[asdf]

[snip]

If I see a scroll bar then I expect the stuff to the *left* of it to go
up
and down. Just like when I see a scroll bar at the bottom of the page I
expect the stuff to move left and right, not up and down.

These are mere Humean expectations, be careful of being like Bertrand
Russell's chicken.

"The man who has fed the chicken every day throughout its life at last
wrings its neck instead, showing that more refined views as to the
uniformity of nature would have been useful to the chicken."

Richard is going to transform the face of the web and you can either get
on board and be alive to uncommon experiences or be left behind. There
is no use at all carping from the sidelines. It is going to be basic,
and it is going to run, and in unexpected directions.

Aye, there's the rub. If it runs in unexpected directions, then it itself
will become sidelined, because it becomes awkward to use.

A bicycle with square wheels is uncommon, but I bet I could catch it on
my
round-wheeled version.

Depends on the shape of the road.

http://pages.usiouxfalls.edu/maa/newsletters/Macalester.squarewheels.SW.editedcropped.S04.jpg

Now *that's* very, very cool, yet wholey impractical...

1) You need to carry your own road everywhere
2) When you get to a corner, the wheels need to follow a line through the
curve *perfectly* or a rough ride could result . Think about it... if the
road is curved, the 'bumps' need to follow a radial pattern, which means the
geometry of each bump of the road would need to change according to its
distance from the focus of the curve... bumpy-bumpy (as my 2yo would say).

I guess that it goes to show (yet again) that difference for differences
sake isn't necessarily such a great idea!

Nice idea, though!

 

[dorayme]

Like a motorcycle tyre? Look at a big bike's rear wheel!

Take a wheel, it is two dimensional. Put the diameter flat on a bench,
with half on and half off the edge. Hold the bit that is on bench down
and bend the rest to be parallel to the bench's legs. Interested in
investing in my project, send $US, don't miss out.