SproutCore--over 20000 lines of new code!

[David Mark]

Just pointing out this error. Sproutcore and Cappuccino have nothing
to do with each other. Not sure where this "same guys" idea came from.
Also not sure if the rest of these comments are supposed to be about
Cappuccino or about Sproutcore.

Doesn't really matter. Have you realized that your developers are
clueless and living in the past? Do you understand that you've got a
cracked foundation? If so, you are welcome for that. Now what are
you going to do about it?

FYI, this is a cross-browser foundation:-

http://www.cinsoft.net/mylib.html

The code has no concept of user agents, yet the fairly torturous test
page works (or degrades gracefully) in:-

IE5-8 (all modes)
Opera 5-10
All FF
NN 6-9
Safari 2-4, Chrome, etc., etc.

....and gets faster the further back you go, which bodes well for slow
mobile devices with limited DOM's, don't you think? What do you think
will happen with your endless browser sniffs? Who is going to go back
and rewrite all of that to match today's browsers? How do you plan to
keep it up in the future? I don't see it.

So why are you building on a discarded jQuery script? Masochism? Or
I suppose sadism is more appropriate considering how many people you
touch with your shit. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, what sort
of destructive buffoon would perpetrate such a thing on iPhone users?
You are either evil or stupid. There's really no in-between here.

 

[David Mark]

About the demos? I can't recall any conversation we might have had,
but I'll agree with you. We haven't been keeping them up to date with
the framework, and we haven't made the time to create more. They are
all on Github, and we've started to collect other projects there as
well, which is a step in the right direction. We're planning a new
community site which will also make it easier to find things.

Don't bother.

 

[David Mark]

That's because you don't think before you talk.

This from you "Jorge?" When have you ever made sense?

 

[David Mark]

The YES, NO issue isn't worth much discussion. It is there to make
people coming from a Cocoa background more comfortable. I can't speak
for the Sproutcore team, but Objective-J is a programming language,
and one of the design goals of that language is compatibility with
Objective-C, so there's no reason not to have similar constants. The
arguments against it are stylistic and subjective, but most
importantly it's a completely inconsequential part of both frameworks.

Both "frameworks" are completely inconsequential. They are just
disjointed collections of bad code. It doesn't matter how many pretty
graphics (or syntacic sugar) you slather on top of their cracked
foundations. They aren't going anywhere but in history's bit bucket.

 

[Garrett Smith]

[...]

Clearly they didn't have a clue. Same for IBM with Dojo and Yahoo
with YUI.

Yahoo didn't sponsor an external effort. YUI has priority for Yahoo
needs. Don't expect your bugs to get fixed.

I have personally filed bugs on YUI that have gone over 1 year unfixed.
I had a bug regarding fixing e.pageX for UserAction get marked INVALID.

Fixes from YUI come faster if you just patch it. YUI can be forked and
patched, but in order to get those patches accepted back into YUI, you
must first go through a signup process to become a registered external
contributor. Smells like lawyers.

The Web developers are revolting? Yes, they certainly are.


Yes. As I pointed out some time back, it sucks.

That's actually different guys, though. Similar looking code, with the
`YES` and `NO` variables, but different guys.

 

[Garrett Smith]

Doesn't really matter. Have you realized that your developers

[...]

Lets be clear about this first: Ross is working on Cappucino:

http://github.com/boucher/cappuccino

I don't see any jQuery there.

It looks a bit like Sproutcore, but nope! It's Cappucino, not Sproutcore.

Here is his Github master:-
http://github.com/boucher/cappuccino/blob/master/Objective-J/constants.js

var MAYBE = 0.5;

;-D Kidding.

My code comments about making js look like Cocoa apply even more
strongly to Cappucino.

 

[David Mark]

RobG wrote:
Jorge wrote:
(e.g., you don't know
a word of cocoa),

[...]

Clearly they didn't have a clue. Same for IBM with Dojo and Yahoo
with YUI.

Yahoo didn't sponsor an external effort. YUI has priority for Yahoo
needs. Don't expect your bugs to get fixed.

I don't expect anything from them. I don't care.

I have personally filed bugs on YUI that have gone over 1 year unfixed.

Same for Dojo. And then you see the same stupid bugs biting people over
and over in the tracker. It's madness.

I had a bug regarding fixing e.pageX for UserAction get marked INVALID.

That's because the code monkeys probably didn't understand what you were
saying. I've seen that more than a few times.

Fixes from YUI come faster if you just patch it. YUI can be forked and
patched, but in order to get those patches accepted back into YUI, you
must first go through a signup process to become a registered external
contributor. Smells like lawyers.

Dojo has some similar "CLA" thing. It's all much ado about nothing if
you ask me. Why is anyone bothering with these things?

That's actually different guys, though. Similar looking code, with the
`YES` and `NO` variables, but different guys.

My question is, what is wrong with these guys (all of them?)

 

[David Mark]

Doesn't really matter. Have you realized that your developers

[...]

Lets be clear about this first: Ross is working on Cappucino:

http://github.com/boucher/cappuccino

Oh that's right. He was the keyboard guy. I thought he was the
"creator" of Sproutcore guy that popped up in this thread a week ago.
My mistake.

I don't see any jQuery there.
Duh.


It looks a bit like Sproutcore, but nope! It's Cappucino, not Sproutcore.

Somebody had mentioned that one relied on the other at some point.
Regardless, I've seen both and both are appalling.

Here is his Github master:-
http://github.com/boucher/cappuccino/blob/master/Objective-J/constants.js

var MAYBE = 0.5;

;-D Kidding.

My code comments about making js look like Cocoa apply even more
strongly to Cappucino.

Yes, they are misguided neophytes, just like the Prototype guys were in
2005. They don't understand the language, so they try to make it look
like a language they do understand. It couldn't be a more foolish
strategy for browser scripting as scripts need to be as simple,
lightweight and efficient as possible. How ignorant can these people
be? It's 2010 and they are stocking up on canned misconceptions
(browser sniffs) from years ago. How will that add up to relevance
today (or even then?)

 

[David Mark]

About the demos? I can't recall any conversation we might have had,
but I'll agree with you. We haven't been keeping them up to date with
the framework, and we haven't made the time to create more.

What a cop-out. How many "guys" are there? Not one can write a
competent demo? And why should you need to "keep them up to date?" It
sounds as if your framework is in a perpetual state of flux.

And when was it that the demos were impressive? What year and browser(s)?

 

[David Mark]

The YES, NO issue isn't worth much discussion.

I'll give you that. Neither is the rest of it (as I noted my review a
year or so back).

[...]

...it's a completely inconsequential part of both frameworks.

Well, then lets change the subject to consequences. Post a link to your
DOM or event code. We'll get to the bottom of this thing.