A
adrian.bartholomew
patrick.
yes i am rude. yes i am stupid.
what else do u need?
patrick.
yes i am rude. yes i am stupid.
what else do u need?
S
Sherm Pendley
Patrick May said:
More to the point, and from another such bystander, continued and willful
writing in such a way is seen as being rude. Writing in such a way once,
out of ignorance of the local customs, is perfectly understandable. Doing
so deliberately, after having been asked not to and told that many find
it difficult to read... Well, there's a word to describe people who go out
of their way to annoy others, but this being mixed company I won't use it.
As far as I can tell, you're not.
Indeed. Sloppy writing is quite often an indicator of sloppy thinking.
Quite the opposite in fact - in my experience it's almost always native
speakers who insist on butchering the language.
sherm--
S
Sherm Pendley
In case *you* didn't notice, this is a public forum, not private email.
When you post here, you're speaking to everyone, even when you're posting
in response to one person in particular.
sherm--
C
Chris Uppal
Gordon said:
One still sees that quoted from time to time, but it's interesting (albeit only
tangentially relevant here) to note that the IETF (or whoever it was) has more
or less completely abandoned that precept.
Two reasons that I know of. One is that forgiving software encourages (or
fails to discourage) deviant behaviour in other software. The result is either
incompatibility (since not everyone in the N*M cases will have the same
interpretation of what flexibility is either appropriate or desirable), or a
lot more work for /everybody/. The second is that if two interdependent, but
separate, systems are looking at the same data, but may have different
interpretations of that data, then you immediately have a potential security
hole.
Example of the first problem: HTML.
Example(s) of the second problem: HTTP response splitting and smuggling.
-- chris
A
adrian.bartholomew
yes chris. hence the reason for steve to disallow the cloning of
macintosh computers.
as a programmer myself, i completely understand the need for attention
to detail to every case of every letter and every semicolon. howEVER
would i survive in this industry.
so where does that leave the general consensus of the sloppy
connection between my "sloppy" writing in a forum to my "sloppy
thinking.
most of u cant help but try to put a picture to the asshole that
started this forum. indeed, it is naturally human. almost impossible
to resist. but i can assure u that ur not only all wrong but u will be
very surprised at ur accusations when u apply it to who i really am.
that will be fun.
i only say this because childish name calling has begun
wow, a smiley. soooooo not appropriate. lol.
life is efficiently inefficient and love is ultimately selfish."_ me
A
adrian.bartholomew
hi sherm. hola.
wadduuuuup.
u know u CAN choose to ignore posts written in this style. no ones
stopping u.
and r u sure that u dont "butcher" the english language?
read ur post again.
also, i dont believe that i am "going out of my way to annoy others".
this HAS BECOME a thread ON THE SUBJECT.
i am merely remaining in character.
boxes, boys and girls, step out of them.
and breathe.......
the world is changing, with no thanks to u.
amen.
A
adrian.bartholomew
jsut to change the subject
S
Sherm Pendley
Quote trimmed - please don't quote signatures.
Perfectly. The use of asterisks to indicate emphasis is traditional and
accepted on Usenet. How *else* would you do so in plain ASCII? How else
would you _underline_ a word, or indicate /italics/?
You said in an earlier comment that your grammar is excellent. Therefore,
you must be making an effort to write so badly. You've been told that sort
of writing is considered rude here, so your doing so is no accident.
I've never understood why some people find it amusing to act in the most
obnoxious way possible, and I never will understand it.
I can't even follow that gibberish well enough to decipher what you're
trying to say.
sherm--
Perfectly. The use of asterisks to indicate emphasis is traditional and
accepted on Usenet. How *else* would you do so in plain ASCII? How else
would you _underline_ a word, or indicate /italics/?
You said in an earlier comment that your grammar is excellent. Therefore,
you must be making an effort to write so badly. You've been told that sort
of writing is considered rude here, so your doing so is no accident.
I've never understood why some people find it amusing to act in the most
obnoxious way possible, and I never will understand it.
I can't even follow that gibberish well enough to decipher what you're
trying to say.
sherm--
J
Joshua Cranmer
While I do admit that this has gotten quite out of hand, there is no
reason to start bullying on sherm. He was just observing one of the main
points of Usenet, i.e., everyone can read what someone posts.
No one here is trying to start an argument except you. We were all just
asking you to comply by the general rules for good posting on Usenet,
and you *purposefully* disregarded them for whatever reason of your own.
Your examples of "IM speech" are generally considered distasteful and
make you seem like a snobbish teenager; in the professional world, stuff
like that should not be tolerated. Frankly, if I was your boss and was
reading this thread, I would be about ready to fire you.
I would like to repeat once again the polite but firm question that has
been asked several times in this thread: Could you please stop acting
like a brat and start acting like an intelligent member of the workforce?
A
adrian.bartholomew
poor shermie
im sowwy sherm sherm.
joshua, i dont get it.
is not science historically improved by the challenging of the status
quo?
im not just behaving badly. i am debating it. in case u didnt notice,
IM the one being bullied upon whether or not i brought it upon myself.
im here in the corner being snarled at with much dripping of saliva.
if the only reason for ur stance is TRADITION. hey, i will have to
question the scientists here.
if u subsequently found out that i was a top scientist world renowned
for my publishings. would u change ur mind?
if i turn out to be an influential spiritual guru. would u change ur
mind?
when we discuss inside of a forum, we do so on 2 levels.
*we SCIENTIFICALLY describe a problem or a solution.
*and we bond with others LIKE us.
the 2nd level is one that involves cultural communication.
in the past, emotions were kept out of forums like this due to the
lack of technology.
now we can share emotions based upon what we learn from our cousins,
chat and IM sites.
of course we could keep it on the conservative side and just borrow
whats needed cause we're all old farts but i would LOVE to hear u 10
yrs from now when your 3 fingers that are pointing back upon u becomes
obsolete.
what do i mean? well...u called me what u come across as. snobbish.
am i not the one u all are turning ur nose up against?
im the down to earth one here saying.....relax.....or
breathe.
patricia, im coming to u soon. i havent forgotten.
S
Sherm Pendley
poor shermie
im sowwy sherm sherm.
Why would you apologize to me?
If you want to make sure that your future messages to this group fall on
deaf ears, that's your loss.
sherm--
A
adrian.bartholomew
maybe. u think it did not occur to me?
but it will eventually be ur loss as u perpetuate ur immaturity.
so ull not play with the ugly kid cause he didnt fit in.
have u learnt nothing in ur life?
have fun shermie.
S
Sherm Pendley
My immaturity? In case you missed it, I'm not the one who thinks being
obnoxious is funny. Nor am I the one who's crying like a child after being
told politely that IM-speak is considered rude on usenet.
I'm done here. I tried to help you learn how to be a better netizen, but
obviously you're one of those people who'd rather learn the hard way than
accept advice.
sherm--
I
Ian Wilson
You are communicating with many people for whom English is not their
first language. Some of those people may know the answer to your
question. The more obscure your English is, the less likely you are to
get help.
Some U.S. spellings are based on English usage of a few hundred years
ago. The spelling has changed in England but not in the U.S. So, as an
Englishman, I think it best to be cautious when accusing people of
bastardising the language.
I find that the less effort you put into making your question concise
and readable, the less effort others will put into helping you. If you
deliberately make life harder for others then you'll get even less help.
I find that the more you use shorthand, the harder it is for me to
"feel" what you are saying. If I give up reading your posts you probably
lose nothing. If many others feel the same as I, you'll probably have a
more impoverished experience here.
A
adrian.bartholomew
ok.
finally someone with a valid point.
yes, english is considered to be one of the harder languages to learn
to one not native to it.
if i, in my bad character, deviate from what they tried so hard to
finally "get" only to be thrown ANOTHER "bouncer" or "curve ball" from
my text'ese, it just tries their patience further. not the mannerly
thing to do.
1 thing always bugs be though.
WHY IS IT CONTINUALLY ACCEPTED, THAT AMERICA IS THE CENTRE OF THE
UNIVERSE?
why do customs have to mostly consist of the american way?
is this not the internet?
is the internet not international by its definition?
even if we limit this debate to the english speaking internet, for
there are foreign language forums, why should the american spelling be
given the nod for standardization and the british not? why cant they
co-exist? u learnt a programming language, how hard is it to TOUCH on
another real cultural language, just TOUCH, and make it easier for an
entire COUNTRY and its worldwide citizens?
would THAT not be the courteous thing to do?
noooooooo. WE have to use "new COLOR()". its NEVER the other way
around.
a recent post here used the word "netizen". if thats not slang, i dont
know what is?
should that be considered easy for foreigners to get?
all im saying is that i am not OVERDOING it and me being accused of
cussing (which is untrue) and being uppity, snobbish and brattish are
all qualities generated and aimed at ME for not fitting in to ur
country club. indeed i have been threatened with ostracization, not
because of being uppity or verbally violent, but because my grammer is
loose.
yet everyone understood everything that i said.
now i do get the concept that it is a little difficult to read
text'ese for some, but no where near so when compared to the lack of
proper paragraphing, the non-use or misuse of punctuation and the
general oblivious care to concise explanation when putting forward, or
responding to, a problem that is so rampant in these forums due to
individual ignorance.
i take pains to make my cases clear. whether its about the use of
text'ese or a java related problem i may have. that to me is what
keeps a forum running smoothly. this "stand" by u all against me for
not capitalizing my i's or shortening you to "u" is trivial. it takes
one reading of one of my posts to get used to it.
but...u dont WANT to get used to it because u see it as bastardizing
ur club language.
well thats just how MANY non-americans see americans. yet the
americans could care LESS.
it is appalling as a non american with a competitive olympic athlete
to endure the pre race show. ESPN is so obviously biased its childish.
"its MY ball".
i know this is off-topic but here we have a chance to really embrace
different cultures.
on ONE screen. a world standard or combination of.
what about a little 12 yr old GENIUS who has been typing IM'ese all
her life and her fingers just got accustomed to it. she now needs ur
help on this forum. guess what.
she is treated like me. poor thing may not be spiritually strong
enough in her formative yrs to do battle with u. she's intimidated and
bows out....of fear.
congratulations. ur club remains "pure".
Adrian
T
Thomas Fritsch
I don't think it is generally accepted (except in America, of course).
When I was at school (in the 1970s, Germany), we learnt British English
("colour", "licence", "theatre"), not American English ("color", "license",
"theater"). And I guess it was the same English as taught in other
countries of Europe, Asia and Africa. It would be interesting to know if
schools in these countries really have moved towards American English during
the last decades. (I doubt about it)
[...]According to said:
A
adrian.bartholomew
no they havent. not australia, not the entire caribbean (except the
american owned islands), not europe, not england, not africa. im not
sure about south america(latin america) but i believe they learn
english the british (english) way.
in other words MOST of the world spell the language the original way.
"neighbour" and every other word ending in that suffix. but we're
kicked out of the club if we dont adhere to the minority.
in every other country, secs come b4 mins b4 hrs b4 days b4 mths b4
yrs. makes sense doesnt it? but we have to deal with the MONTH/DAY/
YEAR standard and indeed, the DEFAULT unless we change it. its not
even logical.
these r just examples.
this is the internet and we can stand up for who we are.
it just rubs me the wrong way having to spell COLOUR as COLOR. it goes
against my upbringing and it brings to mind the condescending feeling
if u ever use "ain't" as a child. thats how bad it feels using
"color". its just plain wrong. but i understand that being brought up
in america would not conjure these feelings in an american. so how
hard is it to include the british vers of spelling in computing
languages.
and while we're at it, why not incorporate some level of text'ese for
the younger folk.
the US is starting a campaign to entice school kids to enter into the
science programs.
shouldnt we?
A
adrian.bartholomew
oh and ur right
so the merging has begun. can u say spanglish?
J
Joshua Cranmer
Try this on for size: the internet was *developed* by the *Pentagon* so
that critical *United States* services would not go down in the event of
a nuclear war. After the internet was privatized and bought by
*American* companies, the companies and organizations in charge of the
standards decided that because the biggest market was America (that is
after all where the internet was), specifications should be written
using American conventions so that people would not have to learn new
conventions. It is a 100% marketing decision: based in *America*,
written by *Americans*, used primarily by *Americans*, you're saying
that it should use *British* conventions? Why don't we then conduct all
government in Latin, it's just as foreign to Americans?
Finally, the internet is *not* international by definition: the internet
is an interconnected network; any time you have a WAN, it is an
internet. Nowhere does international stuff come into the definition.
Sun is an American company, its programming language should then cater
primarily to its primary customers, Americans, so its conventions are
Americans. All major internet companies -- Microsoft, Apple, Google,
eBay, Amazaon, even the Unix developers are/were American; the first
programmable computer was American; precedent biases towards American
conventions. Just as the British Empire exported the British customs and
conventions, so too is the American exportation of technological
innovation exporting American conventions. If you want to write "new
Colour", get a British company (or consortium) to write a new
programming language that gets widely adopted. I'd gladly write it if
the language required it.
J
John W. Kennedy
Joshua said:
Irrelevant. Let's not go jingo.
REXX (from IBM) uses hemisphere-neutral spelling. But that's easier to
do with language keywords than with library-object names.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The pathetic hope that the White House will turn a Caligula into a
Marcus Aurelius is as naïve as the fear that ultimate power inevitably
corrupts."
-- James D. Barber (1930-2004)
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