the target audience of this list

[Sam Halliday]

hi there,

over the last few days i have posted a few questions about some non-standard C
headers/functions. from being on the list in the last few days i have noticed
that this was not the correct place to ask such questions.

is now know this newsgroup is a "C Standard Library" newsgroup, rather than a
"general questions about C" list. it took me a few days to realise this... and i
will therefore not bother the list again unless i have a stdlib question. to me
it seemed that a newsgroup titled "comp.lang.c" would be about general C
questions, and an entirely standards lib newsgroup would have the name
"comp.lang.c.iso"

however, i was very puzzled for a while as the FAQ
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/faq.html
does not mention anything about the kinds of questions which should be asked on
this newsgroup.

perhaps it would be a good idea for someone to mention at the top of the FAQ
that the correct topics for this list include only stdlib/iso ones.

cheers

 

[Ben Pfaff]

over the last few days i have posted a few questions about some non-standard C
headers/functions. from being on the list in the last few days i have noticed
that this was not the correct place to ask such questions.

For what it's worth, this is a "newsgroup", not a "list".

is now know this newsgroup is a "C Standard Library" newsgroup, rather than a
"general questions about C" list. it took me a few days to realise this... and i
will therefore not bother the list again unless i have a stdlib question.

We discuss the standard C language here, which includes the
standard C library.

to me it seemed that a newsgroup titled "comp.lang.c" would be
about general C questions, and an entirely standards lib
newsgroup would have the name "comp.lang.c.iso"

*shrug* You're wrong. Why didn't you follow common Usenet
courtesy and try reading the newsgroup for a while before
posting?

however, i was very puzzled for a while as the FAQ
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/faq.html
does not mention anything about the kinds of questions which should be asked on
this newsgroup.

perhaps it would be a good idea for someone to mention at the top of the FAQ
that the correct topics for this list include only stdlib/iso ones.

You're welcome to suggest it to the FAQ maintainer, but he's not
going to do it.

 

[jacob navia]

This is the view of some people in this list.

Others, like me, consider that this group is not only about ISO C.

I think that general questions about C do belong in this group even if
they are not mentioned in the standard ISO C document.

For instance I think that the non-standard function "alloca" is well
within the scope of this group. Other people say that since it is not
in ISO C it can't be discussed here.

Note that this is an unmoderated newsgroup so that you can post
anything you want.

 

[Emmanuel Delahaye]

over the last few days i have posted a few questions about some
non-standard C headers/functions. from being on the list in the last few
days i have noticed that this was not the correct place to ask such
questions.

is now know this newsgroup is a "C Standard Library" newsgroup, rather
than a "general questions about C" list.

Actually it's simply the C-language goup. The C language is defined by a
standard. The other flavours (Turbo C, Lattice C, Microsoft C, GNU C, etc.)
are not part of the standard and are not discussed here but rather on the
relevant groups. As simple as that.

 

[Mabden]

hi there,

over the last few days i have posted a few questions about some non-standard C
headers/functions. from being on the list in the last few days i have noticed
that this was not the correct place to ask such questions.

If you don't already know the answer, you'd be better off banging your head
against the wall...

 

[Mark A. Odell]

This is the view of some people in this list.

Others, like me, consider that this group is not only about ISO C.

I think that general questions about C do belong in this group even if
they are not mentioned in the standard ISO C document.

For instance I think that the non-standard function "alloca" is well
within the scope of this group. Other people say that since it is not
in ISO C it can't be discussed here.

Why, it doesn't exist in almost all my ANSI C cross-compilers. It wouldn't
be fair to discuss such function, would it? The world does write C
programs for Unix and Linux exclusively.

 

[Keith Thompson]

however, i was very puzzled for a while as the FAQ
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/faq.html
does not mention anything about the kinds of questions which should
be asked on this newsgroup.

perhaps it would be a good idea for someone to mention at the top of
the FAQ that the correct topics for this list include only
stdlib/iso ones.

Steve Summit's FAQ is more about the C language than about the
comp.lang.c newsgroup.

James Hu has been posting a "Welcome to comp.lang.c!" message that
covers what's appropriate for the newsgroup. I haven't yet read it
closely enough to evalute it; assuming it's reasonable, it might be
good for Steve's FAQ page to include a pointer to a copy of James Hu's
welcome message.

 

[Arthur J. O'Dwyer]

Why, it doesn't exist in almost all my ANSI C cross-compilers. It wouldn't
be fair to discuss such function, would it? The world does write C
programs for Unix and Linux exclusively.

s/does/does not/

And what does 'alloca' have to do with Unix or Linux? I write C
code for Linux systems (and Windows, and DOS, and...), and I have
no idea what 'alloca' is supposed to do. Nor do I care. Because
my implementations of the standard C language do not supply such
a function. (Now 'strdup', on the other hand...

This shows exactly the reason we don't discuss off-topic stuff here.
It's useless to the majority of participants, and it's often wrong,
to boot. If you want to know about the effects of gamma rays on
Microsoft systems, then ask in comp.ms.gamma-rays. Here in comp.lang.c,
we discuss only the language C, and I for one like it that way.

-Arthur

 

[Sam Halliday]

*shrug* You're wrong. Why didn't you follow common Usenet
courtesy and try reading the newsgroup for a while before
posting?

yes, i know i was wrong... thats why i am asking someone to state clearly what
the goal of this newsgroup is... so other people like myself don't waste their
time and your time by asking off topic questions.

oh and excuse me if reading the FAQ, spending a few hours on google and other
relevant website (trying find a solution before posting) and checking to see if
there are any other newsgroup which might be more suitable... isn't enough for
you. i guess next time i have an urgent question i'll just follow your advise
and read the newsgroup for a few days beforehand in the hope that i am not going
to get flamed! come on... be realistic. a single sentence somewhere at the top
of the FAQ explaining what the newsgroup is aimed it isn't too much to ask.

You're welcome to suggest it to the FAQ maintainer, but he's not
going to do it.

what makes you think that?

 

[Sam Halliday]

Actually it's simply the C-language goup. The C language is defined by a
standard. The other flavours (Turbo C, Lattice C, Microsoft C, GNU C, etc.)
are not part of the standard and are not discussed here but rather on the
relevant groups. As simple as that.

yeah, but the point i am trying to make is that this newsgroup is not a "general
questions about C" group, which it may easily be mistaken for. so the topic of
conversation should be mentioned somewhere, preferably the FAQ.

 

[Sam Halliday]

If you don't already know the answer, you'd be better off banging your head
against the wall...

? :-/ ?

i don't get your meaning...

 

[jacob navia]

And what does 'alloca' have to do with Unix or Linux? I write C
code for Linux systems (and Windows, and DOS, and...), and I have
no idea what 'alloca' is supposed to do. Nor do I care. Because
my implementations of the standard C language do not supply such
a function. (Now 'strdup', on the other hand...

All linux compilers and windows compilers supply alloca.
Now, if you do not want to use it, it is your choice.
Why impose such a choice to others?

 

[Ben Pfaff]

what makes you think that?

Because it's been suggested before and he hasn't.

 

[Martin Ambuhl]

hi there,

over the last few days i have posted a few questions about some non-standard C
headers/functions. from being on the list in the last few days i have noticed
that this was not the correct place to ask such questions.

is now know this newsgroup is a "C Standard Library" newsgroup, rather than a
"general questions about C" list.

This is a misunderstanding on your part. "General questions about C"
are about, amazingly, C. They are not about your operating system or
your third-party libraries. They are not about algorithms that have
nothing to do with the language used. They are not about
characteristics of you hardware.

it took me a few days to realise this...

And you still don't get it.

and i
will therefore not bother the list again unless i have a stdlib question.

There are many standard library functions for which <stdlib.h> is the
wrong header and there are many aspects to C that have nothing to do
with the library. There is no newsgroup with the narrow focus you
incorrectly claim for clc.

to me
it seemed that a newsgroup titled "comp.lang.c" would be about general C
questions, and an entirely standards lib newsgroup would have the name
"comp.lang.c.iso"

Tell us what you think C is, if not the C language as defined by its
defining documents. You have this exactly backwards in your implication
that the focus is too narrow: insisting that your little world defines
C sets the narrow target.

 

[Martin Ambuhl]

yeah, but the point i am trying to make is that this newsgroup is not a "general
questions about C" group,

And you are wrong. You want to discuss questions that are *not* about
C. Grow up.

 

[Dave Vandervies]

All linux compilers and windows compilers supply alloca.

Really? So is it gcc or uname that's lying to me here?
--------
dave@hct-cvs:~/clc (0) $ cat foo.c
/*There's a man page that claims alloca is declared in stdlib.h, so this
is a best-guess about how to get it.
*/
#include <stdlib.h>

int main(void)
{
alloca();

return 0;
}
dave@hct-cvs:~/clc (0) $ gcc -W -Wall -ansi -pedantic -O foo.c
foo.c: In function `main':
foo.c:8: warning: implicit declaration of function `alloca'
/tmp/ccn8UpcR.o: In function `main':
/tmp/ccn8UpcR.o(.text+0x4): undefined reference to `alloca'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
dave@hct-cvs:~/clc (1) $ gcc --version
egcs-2.91.66
dave@hct-cvs:~/clc (0) $ uname -a
Linux hct-cvs 2.2.16 #9 Thu Mar 13 16:55:23 EST 2003 i586 unknown
dave@hct-cvs:~/clc (0) $
--------

gcc claims it doesn't have a declaration for alloca, the linker claims
it can't find it in the library, and uname claims that I'm running Linux
(which you say necessarily supports it).

I'm inclined to think that it's you, and not the programs I'm running,
that's mistaken.


dave

 

[Sam Halliday]

James Hu has been posting a "Welcome to comp.lang.c!" message that
covers what's appropriate for the newsgroup. I haven't yet read it
closely enough to evalute it; assuming it's reasonable, it might be
good for Steve's FAQ page to include a pointer to a copy of James Hu's
welcome message.

well, that sounds like a good idea

 

[Kieran Simkin]

yes, i know i was wrong... thats why i am asking someone to state clearly what
the goal of this newsgroup is... so other people like myself don't waste their
time and your time by asking off topic questions.

I think the meaning of "comp.lang.c" is quite clear - the standard libraries
are part of the language (because they're distributed with virtually every C
compiler available), MFC (for example) is not (because it is not). If you
start including other people's libraries in the scope of this newsgroup,
where do you draw the line? There must be literally hundreds of thousands of
C libraries available, and in comparison the readership of this group is
quite small. If you allow everything, the newsgroup will be flooded with
questions nobody can answer or questions badly answered by people who don't
really know what they're talking about.

This seems like common sense to me without even needing to read the FAQ, I
fail to see why it's not obvious to everyone else.

oh and excuse me if reading the FAQ, spending a few hours on google and other
relevant website (trying find a solution before posting) and checking to see if
there are any other newsgroup which might be more suitable... isn't enough for
you. i guess next time i have an urgent question i'll just follow your

advise

If you have an urgent question, don't rely on usenet for your answers. In
fact, don't rely on usenet.

and read the newsgroup for a few days beforehand in the hope that i am not going
to get flamed! come on... be realistic. a single sentence somewhere at the top
of the FAQ explaining what the newsgroup is aimed it isn't too much to

ask.

Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Sam Halliday]

And you are wrong. You want to discuss questions that are *not* about
C. Grow up.

i asked about the existence of a .h file; i'd say that was a question about C.
jesus... you are all awful touchy on this newsgroup, aren't you?

 

[Sam Halliday]

your little world

you are in credibly patronising and i will not answer your loaded questions. i
hearby declare comp.lang.c as the most unfriendly newsgroup i have ever had the
misfortune to come across.