thread problem...

[Chuck F.]

I did think that maybe Keith was being too harsh, but I now see
that he was right.

Statistics: According to my filter log, Kenny has tripped it in a
15:1 ratio over any other twerp since Dec. 15th. I.E. that plonk
is fifteen times more efficacious than any other.

Bear in mind that PLONKs have twofold effects. They prevent one
being annoyed by pointless mouthings, and by ignoring the mouther
they tend to remove the mouthers amusement, thus causing said
mouther to eventually disappear.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>

 

[clayne]

What I find most annoying about comp.lang.c is how the regulars would
rather have weekly arguments over the definition of an 'int' than
actually ever recognize the validity of "unix-specific" questions... as
if C was invented without unix ever being present.

Get real. That's why comp.unix.programmer and comp.programming.threads
are much more easy-going and enable people to actually learn rather
than be beat down at the first sight of trivial (and pragmatically
meaningless) language assumptions.

For you die-hard "you forgot to include stdlib.h, therefore I cannot
even look at your code" regulars out there: I vote to change the
group's name to comp.lang.c.asperger.syndrome to fit your endless
inflexibility and need to control all things that don't fit into your
world view (quip replies without quotes that don't matter anyways,
top-posting (how about using your eyes, move them down to the quoted
section and read it first, there there, that wasn't too hard was it?),
and other my-way-or-the-highway type whines ever-present here).

Learning should be enjoyable for all, and open to mistakes, not a damn
battlefield. But hey, it's that important to be right, right?

 

[Richard Heathfield]

clayne said:

What I find most annoying about comp.lang.c is how the regulars would
rather have weekly arguments over the definition of an 'int'

No, we'd rather not have such arguments. All the regulars know what an int
is. Unfortunately, some people who are not regulars do not know what an int
is, despite having been programming in what they laughingly call C for a
considerable number of years.

than
actually ever recognize the validity of "unix-specific" questions...

But such questions are surely better dealt with by Unix experts than by C
experts? Is this not obvious? Is this not common sense?

Learning should be enjoyable for all, and open to mistakes, not a damn
battlefield.

I agree entirely. But when people refuse to learn, what's the point in
trying to teach them?

But hey, it's that important to be right, right?

It can be, yes, when lives are at stake. Badly-written code can kill people.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

(The usual RH psychobabble - deleted)
(Then clayne says)

It can be, yes, when lives are at stake. Badly-written code can kill people.

You need to learn how to distinguish between Usenet and real life.

When you can show me where the contents of a Usenet post affect life/death
in the real world (i.e., not in the funny little online world), then we'll
talk, OK?

What clayne and others like him are able to do (and which seems to escape
the "regulars" here) is realize that online/Usenet is a surreal existence,
only loosely connected with "real life".

 

[nelu]

When you can show me where the contents of a Usenet post affect life/death
in the real world (i.e., not in the funny little online world), then we'll
talk, OK?

Companies like Siemens use C in a lot of programs used in cars and
airplanes, some of them in vital places. There are a lot of cases of
tragedies (cars and planes) related to badly written code (even C).
Last year at least two car companies pulled new car types from the
market after problems with the electronics and software. If it's an
off-topic question and there are other channels with people better
prepared to answer them, then those should be the places to ask those
questions. The answers can really lead to life and death situations in
the real world.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

Companies like Siemens use C in a lot of programs used in cars and
airplanes, some of them in vital places. There are a lot of cases of
tragedies (cars and planes) related to badly written code (even C).
Last year at least two car companies pulled new car types from the
market after problems with the electronics and software. If it's an
off-topic question and there are other channels with people better
prepared to answer them, then those should be the places to ask those
questions. The answers can really lead to life and death situations in
the real world.

You, also, need to get some help in learning to distinguish between Usenet
and real life.

 

[nelu]

You, also, need to get some help in learning to distinguish between Usenet
and real life.

Even when a lot of people apply what they learn on Usenet in real-life?

 

[Markus Becker]

It can be, yes, when lives are at stake. Badly-written code can kill people.

So you are, like me, for the death penalty for using gets()?

No, seriously, I know what you mean because some of my past
project where in such fields that, had I some serious mistake
in my software (not only security holes and buffer overflows,
I mean algorithms working the way they're implemented and not
the way they were intended) could lead to the death or serious
injury of people not even having the faintest clue that there
is some kind of software that protects them.

Just think of automated quality control systems for parts
that are later used in your car's ESP, airbag, brakes or
the turbine blades of the airplane your just crossing the
alps in.

Another category is a device that I've made that is used
to detect oil theft/smuggle at large scale in south ameri-
ca and can bring innocent people to jail if not functioning
correctly under all circumstances. Or, if he was able to
manipulate the software in this device, or even the hardware,
without my software detecting it, will enable him to continue
his capital crimes, happily smiling at the customs officer.

Markus

 

[Markus Becker]

Even when a lot of people apply what they learn on Usenet in real-life?

And perhaps Kenny should stay away from usenet for a while and
try to get one.

A (real) life, I mean.
I'm not sure if I can laugh about him. I know a lot of
people thinking like he does. And that's not funny.

Markus

 

[Markus Becker]

You, also, need to get some help in learning to distinguish between Usenet
and real life.

Not every one is as dumb as you are and just trolls around
in the newsgroup insulting people. Can't you imagine that
(apart from lots of students and wanna-be hobby programmers)
people come here to ask questions about problems
they have in their real life as you call it (btw. usenet is
part of the real life, believe it or not)? They have a
problem, ask and discuss, sometimes even learning something
during the discussions and be glad afterwards that they
were able to solve their problems. Perhaps they even have
learned something that helps them to avoid problems or
errors of similar categories in the future?

Markus, score adjusted

 

[Richard Heathfield]

nelu said:

Even when a lot of people apply what they learn on Usenet in real-life?

You need to learn to distinguish between Kenny McCormack and a person
genuinely interested in, and capable of learning from, your answer.

 

[Keith Thompson]

(The usual RH psychobabble - deleted)
(Then clayne says)

[snip]

___________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please do |
/ O O\__ NOT |
/ \ feed the |
/ \ \ trolls |
/ _ \ \ ______________|
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
/ \|_|_|/ \ __||
/ / \ |____| ||
/ | | /| | --|
| | |// |____ --|
* _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ // |
/ _ \\ _ // | /
* / \_ /- | - | |
* ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

 

[Randy Howard]

Kenny McCormack wrote

(The usual RH psychobabble - deleted)
(Then clayne says)

You need to learn how to distinguish between Usenet and real life.

And also to recognize when they intersect.

When you can show me where the contents of a Usenet post affect life/death
in the real world (i.e., not in the funny little online world), then we'll
talk, OK?

Simple: Post the source code to a virus here. The real world
will stand up and take notice.

More obscure way: Fail to teach students properly, they go to
Usenet to get help, they get bad advice, then graduate anyway,
go on to employment in a nuclear power plant, on missile
guidance systems, space shuttle management software, etc.
People die.

 

[clayne]

Companies like Siemens use C in a lot of programs used in cars and
airplanes, some of them in vital places. There are a lot of cases of
tragedies (cars and planes) related to badly written code (even C).

Hate to break it to you, but they aren't coming to comp.lang.c for code
auditing. Neither are the R+D crew of nuclear reactors and air traffic
control management software.

 

[nelu]

Hate to break it to you, but they aren't coming to comp.lang.c for code
auditing. Neither are the R+D crew of nuclear reactors and air traffic
control management software.

Oh, I forgot that those people are born with special mutations that
make them C gurus before they get out of the womb.
Maybe rocket scientists don't come here, but there's a chance that some
of them were here before becoming rocket scientists... and maybe
someone who will become a rocket scientist is already here, trying to
learn and getting incomplete information because they were not directed
to the specialists.
You probably know a lot about rockets to help with an answer, but, if
you are wrong, how many people in here are going to correct you?
And errors propagate exponentially... even if they can't.

 

[clayne]

___________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please do |
/ O O\__ NOT |
/ \ feed the |
/ \ \ trolls |
/ _ \ \ ______________|

Self-important guy, it's not trolling. We're bringing up valid issues
with valid content and dispute. Just because you fail to agree with or
recognize observations outside of your own
little world does not mean they can be automatically written off as
"trolls trolling." But I understand - it's intellectually easier for
you to cast off that which you don't agree with. All part of that
asperger's thing again, I guess.

 

[clayne]

They have a
problem, ask and discuss, sometimes even learning something
during the discussions and be glad afterwards that they
were able to solve their problems. Perhaps they even have
learned something that helps them to avoid problems or
errors of similar categories in the future?

Markus, score adjusted

Because typically the answers are snide, strident, and self-important -
with a subtle goal of the regulars trying to out-correct/identify
mistakes of others. There's typically not much pragmatism exercised and
answers are full of implied perfectionism.

 

[Walter Roberson]

Because typically the answers are snide, strident, and self-important -
with a subtle goal of the regulars trying to out-correct/identify
mistakes of others. There's typically not much pragmatism exercised and
answers are full of implied perfectionism.

Well, this -is- comp.LANG.c . It might be different if it were
comp.PROGRAMMING.c .

 

[clayne]

Well, this -is- comp.LANG.c . It might be different if it were
comp.PROGRAMMING.c .

And what verse of the bible quotes: "Thou shalt have right to be snide
asshole if posting to comp.lang.* but thou shalt exercise the restraint
of the holy one if stricken by the filth of comp.programming.*" ? I
think that's in Ecclesiastes somewhere as well.

 

[Grumble]

But I understand - it's intellectually easier for you to cast off
that which you don't agree with. All part of that asperger's thing
again, I guess.

Asparagus?