Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a

[Chris Angelico]

root@secure [/home/nikos/www/cgi-bin]# python3 -V Python 3.4.0a4

Let me just check.

Nobody is so stupid as to run alpha software on a production server[1]
are they?

[1] In this context, "production server" means any system facing the
public internet upon which python code is executed in response to inputs
from the public internet.

I don't know that that's necessarily stupid. For a lot of my work,
I've been using a trunk version of Pike (7.9.11 currently), and if I
were working more heavily with Python on my servers, I would consider
using alpha versions if there were features that I wanted (or fixes
that I needed). It's not stupid, but it does require a "hand on the
tiller" so to speak; running alpha code - or, for that matter, any
code you compiled yourself - in production means taking responsibility
for it. I'm confident of my own ability to keep up with changes, but
for most people, I would strongly recommend taking, in order: (1) the
Python that your distro provides; (2) a python.org published stable
version; (3) a preproduction (eg RC) version; and finally (4) anything
else, including straight from Mercurial. The further down that list
you go, the more work you have to do yourself to ensure compatibility,
dependency management, etcetera.

ChrisA

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Denis McMahon

Nobody is so stupid as to run alpha software on a production server[1]
are they?

[1] In this context, "production server" means any system facing the
public internet upon which python code is executed in response to
inputs from the public internet.

Surely the answer to that is, "define stupid"?

What are the consequences of breakage? If the consequences are minor, why
wouldn't I use alpha software? Hypothetically speaking, even if the
machine were totally compromised, I might just shrug and rebuild it
(hopefully having reported the security vulnerability that allowed the
compromise, and having it fixed).

But specifically in this case, I agree with your implication, and
question the wisdom of the OP upgrading from a stable version of 3.3 to
an alpha version of 3.4.

I don't know that that's necessarily stupid. For a lot of my work, I've
been using a trunk version of Pike (7.9.11 currently), and if I were
working more heavily with Python on my servers, I would consider using
alpha versions if there were features that I wanted (or fixes that I
needed). It's not stupid, but it does require a "hand on the tiller" so
to speak; running alpha code - or, for that matter, any code you
compiled yourself - in production means taking responsibility for it.

Yes, this! A master craftsman knows when to break the rules. I personally
would not run a public web app using alpha software because I know my
limitations, but I'm sure there are those who have both the skill to
manage it and the wisdom to know whether or not to risk it.

I'm confident of my own ability to keep up with changes, but for most
people, I would strongly recommend taking, in order: (1) the Python that
your distro provides; (2) a python.org published stable version; (3) a
preproduction (eg RC) version; and finally (4) anything else, including
straight from Mercurial. The further down that list you go, the more
work you have to do yourself to ensure compatibility, dependency
management, etcetera.

+1

 

[Chris Angelico]

Yes, this! A master craftsman knows when to break the rules. I personally
would not run a public web app using alpha software because I know my
limitations...

+1. Plenty of people know that a master knows when to break the
rules... the flip side is that a master also knows when NOT to break
the rules. I'll run a trunk build of Pike, and I might of Python, but
I wouldn't run a pre-alpha version of Apache, nor of the Linux kernel,
nor pretty much anything else on my system. That is, not in
production. There are all sorts of things that I'll happily do in a
VM, where the consequences of totally hosing the system are "Oh dear,
now I have to restore from a snapshot".

For what it's worth, I've been running 3.4 builds for a while - not in
production, but only because my production box is actually a rather
ancient and very stable machine and I have no reason yet to change
anything. It's looking fairly good, but I'd say the change from 3.3 to
3.4 is a lot less exciting for me than the change from 3.2 to 3.3.
(Though asyncio may invert that valuation, once I dig into it enough
to find out how fun it is.)

ChrisA

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

I strongly recommend that you stay on Python 2, and focus on other
concerns.

Nikos has been using Python 3.3 for his website for months now.

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

Stop him and stop the spoon feeders and I stop. Simples.

Oh, why didn't you say so in the first place? Okay, I'll just wave my
magic wand and say the magic words and he'll go away...

Hmmm, it doesn't seem to be working. Perhaps you can suggest another way?

We've tried ignoring him and it doesn't work, we've tried shouting abuse
and not only doesn't it make him go away it just makes him shout abuse
back, and it frightens off newcomers to the group. I've tried wishing
really hard, rearranging the socks in my sock drawer, and kicking the dog
across the room, so if you've got any suggestions that don't involve a
pointless flamewar I'll be really, really grateful to hear them.

And we are sick
to death of seeing him here, don't you have the guts to say it like it
is?

I prefer brains to guts. Guts is just an excuse for not thinking. What
good does it do to "say it like it is"? You don't discourage him, you
just send a message that flaming is acceptable, make this a more hostile
environment, AND rather than discourage him, your flames just encourage
him to counter-attack with abuse. Flaming as a way to remove annoying
posters (be they help-vampires or trolls) doesn't work.

Please Mark, and anyone else reading, I'm begging you on bended knee,
take your flaming off list. You can be a valued member of this community
when you put your mind to it, but your prideful refusal to stop attacking
Nikos is helping to wreck this community.

 

[Ferrous Cranus]

Στις 14/11/2013 2:54 πμ, ο/η Johannes Findeisen έγÏαψε:

Try looking for a package named "setuptools". I think that is the
package you are missing for installing pip. I don't know anything about
the current CentOS release so may it will not be available via yum.

Good luck!

Regards,
Johannes

i will but i must tell you that i had

'yum groupinstall "development tools"'

i did this before even installing Python 3.4a

 

[Nick the Gr33k]

Will someone please tell me how to install 'pip'

My website is not working because modules are missing and the only way i
can install them is by installing python's module manager 'pip'

but 'yum install python-pip' fails.

How would i install the damn thing?

These action should be done via package managers but i wasn't ven able
to install python 3.4a like that, i had to compile it form source when
the easy thing to do was "yum install python3"

what wrong with this 'yum' manager?

 

[Chris Angelico]

These action should be done via package managers but i wasn't ven able to
install python 3.4a like that, i had to compile it form source when the easy
thing to do was "yum install python3"

what wrong with this 'yum' manager?

With yum you get whatever yum is carrying. If you build from source,
you're on your own. You chose to build from source. Now you're on your
own. Have fun. Get to know what it takes to run your own system,
without the package manager's help (or rather, without as much of the
package manager's help). These are Linux system administration
questions, NOT Python questions.

ChrisA

 

[Mark Lawrence]

Please Mark, and anyone else reading, I'm begging you on bended knee,
take your flaming off list. You can be a valued member of this community
when you put your mind to it, but your prideful refusal to stop attacking
Nikos is helping to wreck this community.

No need for the bended knee old chap, although if you want some kind of
part I'm fairly sure that Chris Angelico could find you something in one
of his Gilbert and Sullivan productions.

Talking of Chris, I see that he, Robert Kern and alister (possibly
others?) have all pointed out to our illustrious Greek colleague that
his latest question, which has been repeated three times to my
knowledge, isn't Python related and would he please ask it elsewhere.
Hopefully this pattern will continue, meaning the end of hostilities.

I'll give up mentioning the spoon feeders part in this rather unpleasant
interlude. Doh!!!

 

[Benjamin Kaplan]

Will someone please tell me how to install 'pip'

My website is not working because modules are missing and the only way i

can install them is by installing python's module manager 'pip'

but 'yum install python-pip' fails.

How would i install the damn thing?

These action should be done via package managers but i wasn't ven able to

install python 3.4a like that, i had to compile it form source when the
easy thing to do was "yum install python3"

what wrong with this 'yum' manager?

package managers assume that they are the only thing installing software on
your system. Any python related package you install through yum will only
be compiled for and installed to the versions of python that you can get
through yum. If you want to compile python outside they package manager,
you'll also have to install all the libraries outside of the package
manager.

 

[Chris Angelico]

No need for the bended knee old chap, although if you want some kind of part
I'm fairly sure that Chris Angelico could find you something in one of his
Gilbert and Sullivan productions.

Oh, absolutely! Quite a few! Also, there are references in "The Grand
Duke" to, and I quote, "histrionic art". I think that adequately
describes some of what we've seen here

ChrisA