Virtual Ruby Group

[Zach Dennis]

Ok, I have a question for fellow rubyists, rubyiers, etc... There seem
to be alot of people in their area that are the *only* publicly
announcing ruby programmers. (I'm sure there are others, but they may be
afraid of getting maulled by the local perl mongers or python lovers
group...or in my case the .NET cultists).

If this sounds appealling to other people perhaps we could set up a
virtual ruby group. Setup microphone/webcam/instant messenger/irc
channel, etc.. to do a meeting over the wire.

This way we could still join on doing ruby projects together, meeting to
go over all the cool stuff we find out, or are doing and can help people
interested in ruby. Heck no one has to leave their own
bedroom/office/basement/garage/coffee house/etc... Just plug in and
we're there!

Does this sound appealing to people? If so, please respond to this
thread...If enough people are interested we can start an actual ML for
that type of thing.

Heck, our first project could be writing an mini-ERP system for our
virtual users group, which would host the virtual meetings on some
corporate T1(s)!

Zach

 

[Lyle Johnson]

If this sounds appealling to other people perhaps we could set up a
virtual ruby group. Setup microphone/webcam/instant messenger/irc
channel, etc.. to do a meeting over the wire.

Well, there is of course the existing IRC channel at freenode, so I
don't think we want to splinter off from that. Are you suggesting that
we try to augment that (e.g. with webcams and what-not)?

 

[Zach Dennis]

Well, there is of course the existing IRC channel at freenode, so I
don't think we want to splinter off from that. Are you suggesting that
we try to augment that (e.g. with webcams and what-not)?

Sort of, and sort of not. I remember going to a few other Ruby Groups
web sites (I think Seattle.rb was the most recent and it was mentioned
on the list) and I really the liked the idea of people getting together
and starting projects together. I thought this was really awesome of
these groups to do this.

irc is great, but i don't know if it is the right spot to solicit to
others, "hey do you want to band together and work on a project
together?!" I dont' want to disrespect the #ruby-lang channel or scare
people far far away.

I was thinking that a Virtual Ruby Group could be as simple as a couple
people who didn't have other rubyists in their area to band together on
their own ML, and to setup online meetings once a month to start a
project together. This seems like a good way for ruby programmers, both
new and advanced to be apart of something. This could get as geeky as
people with WebCams, Microphones, etc... or just be a 2 people emailing
each other back and forth.

I may be wishful thinking here, and this wasn't entirely thought out to
be honest. I was just thinking when I was at the Ruby Meetup Group(s)
web site, "WOW there are alot of 1-2 people groups, if they joined
together there'd be a whole slew of rubyists, just think what they could
accomplish!".

I don't know if anyone else out there is thinking, man that'd be cool,
but I dont' want to say anything...so I thought I'd say something.
Fighting for the little guy in a sea of .NET, Perl, Python and Java users!

Zach

 

[Hal Fulton]

Sort of, and sort of not. I remember going to a few other Ruby Groups
web sites (I think Seattle.rb was the most recent and it was mentioned
on the list) and I really the liked the idea of people getting together
and starting projects together. I thought this was really awesome of
these groups to do this.

I think this is a good idea, though it might be tricky in practice.

One reason I got interested in FreeRIDE was I had the idea for a
pair-programming editor (about 2.5 years ago).

Curt said it would be easy to implement, but it has never been
added to FreeRIDE yet.

But if I had a practical way to communicate, I'd love to collaborate
on some stuff.


Hal

 

[Michel Martens]

But if I had a practical way to communicate, I'd love to collaborate
on some stuff.

I'd love that too. Living in Mar del Plata, Argentina, I don't have a
rubist fellow in 1000 miles around. I think it's a great idea, though
I can't help seeing myself idling at freenode until I get bored to
death. Anyway, maybe it's worth a try.

Michel.

 

[Lyle Johnson]

Sort of, and sort of not. I remember going to a few other Ruby Groups
web sites (I think Seattle.rb was the most recent and it was mentioned
on the list) and I really the liked the idea of people getting together
and starting projects together. I thought this was really awesome of
these groups to do this.

Oh, yes. Definitely.

irc is great, but i don't know if it is the right spot to solicit to
others, "hey do you want to band together and work on a project
together?!" I dont' want to disrespect the #ruby-lang channel or scare
people far far away.

This mailing list and the IRC channel seem like the obvious places to
do that already; that's why it would sort-of worry me if we set Yet
Another Web Site where you go to solicit other people to join you on a
Ruby-related project. That is to say, I don't want us to get so
"diluted" that it actually becomes *harder* to find Ruby people
because you're not sure web site, or mailing list, or IRC channel to
flock to.

I was thinking that a Virtual Ruby Group could be as simple as a couple
people who didn't have other rubyists in their area to band together on
their own ML, and to setup online meetings once a month to start a
project together. This seems like a good way for ruby programmers, both
new and advanced to be apart of something. This could get as geeky as
people with WebCams, Microphones, etc... or just be a 2 people emailing
each other back and forth.

Oh, yes, now this sounds fine once a group's established. I haven't
yet had a chance to look at Skype (http://www.skype.com) but it might
be something that you could use; it seems to have a pretty high geek
quotient. And of course Hal mentioned the desire to integrate pair
programming capabilities into FreeRIDE; there might be other
Ruby-based technologies that you could develop to facilitate these
virtual user group meetings.

I may be wishful thinking here, and this wasn't entirely thought out to
be honest. I was just thinking when I was at the Ruby Meetup Group(s)
web site, "WOW there are alot of 1-2 people groups, if they joined
together there'd be a whole slew of rubyists, just think what they could
accomplish!".

Yes, and let me be clear that I'm not trying to throw cold water on
the idea. I'm glad you're excited about it and hope that it goes
somewhere. I'm one of those people out in the Ruby desert (that is the
Tennessee Valley) and until I recruit some more guys at work to get
into Ruby, the Internet is my virtual user group too.

This also seems like the appropriate place to mention the RubyCentral,
Inc. codefest grant program (see http://www.rubycentral.org); it is a
program designed to provide support for local and regional groups
working on development of Ruby libraries. The first round of
solicitations has just ended (i.e. you can't apply for a grant right
now), but if this first round of work goes well there may be
additional ones in the future.

 

[James Edward Gray II]

But if I had a practical way to communicate, I'd love to collaborate
on some stuff.

Yeah, I code go for that too. I would like to get involved with more
Ruby projects, especially group projects. Sounds like fun.

James Edward Gray II

 

[Zach Dennis]

I think this is a good idea, though it might be tricky in practice.

One reason I got interested in FreeRIDE was I had the idea for a
pair-programming editor (about 2.5 years ago).

Curt said it would be easy to implement, but it has never been
added to FreeRIDE yet.

But if I had a practical way to communicate, I'd love to collaborate
on some stuff.

It appears there are other folks out there willing to give this a shot!
I'm going to wait until later today or tomorrow in case some others want
to show interest on this thread, then I'll post a few suggestions and
questions for those interested and maybe we can get something going (or
at least a plan of attack) for our Virtual Ruby Group.

Zach

 

[Kero]

irc is great, but i don't know if it is the right spot to solicit to

This mailing list and the IRC channel seem like the obvious places to
do that already; that's why it would sort-of worry me if we set Yet
Another Web Site where you go to solicit other people to join you on a
Ruby-related project. That is to say, I don't want us to get so
"diluted" that it actually becomes *harder* to find Ruby people
because you're not sure web site, or mailing list, or IRC channel to
flock to.

I play in a game called VGA-planets. It's from the days a VGA screen was
highres. It is still played, amazingly enough!!
But the user community is totally, utterly fragmented. A shame.

However, an IRC channel with a million users won't work. So there will
have to be some spread. While Ruby is as it is now, there is a central
place and things will remain cohesive. Linux is Many, but Linux is also
One.

However, it is very hard to become One when you start with many. It is
easier to remain One when you grow to become Many.

VGA-Planets' central place is dormant. No wonder the community fell apart.

Perhaps another way of saying it: if this Virtual Ruby Group is 'extra',
that is good. If it is 'instead of', it is bad. (hey, you asked on the
ML/NG, so you probably think 'extra'; I can feel why ppl can be offput,
though).

....but with your own ML, only use it for meetings, not for general Ruby
questions. We have a ML. Do not fork the ML.

(plenty of web-software that encourages you to make your own this, your
own that, your own everything. That does not mean it is always a good idea.)

Absolutely!

+--- Kero ----------------------- kero@chello@nl ---+
| all the meaningless and empty words I spoke |
| Promises -- The Cranberries |
+--- M38c --- http://httpd.chello.nl/k.vangelder ---+

 

[Bill Guindon]

Oh, yes. Definitely.

I'd think it's a fine place to do that. And for a larger project, you
can set up another channel.

This mailing list and the IRC channel seem like the obvious places to
do that already; that's why it would sort-of worry me if we set Yet
Another Web Site where you go to solicit other people to join you on a
Ruby-related project. That is to say, I don't want us to get so
"diluted" that it actually becomes *harder* to find Ruby people
because you're not sure web site, or mailing list, or IRC channel to
flock to.

Splintering the group can be a problem, but all that's needed is
occassional posts here announcing updates, or a couple of group
members to add urls, irc channel name, etc. to their sig files.

Oh, yes, now this sounds fine once a group's established. I haven't
yet had a chance to look at Skype (http://www.skype.com) but it might
be something that you could use; it seems to have a pretty high geek

I've not tried skype, but I hear good things about it. I've done
quite a bit of voice chat (in fact, I'm chatting a buddy in Georgia
atm), and it can work well. Not sure how well it works in large
crowds, about the most I've tried is 6 or 7, and that may be a
realistic limit.

quotient. And of course Hal mentioned the desire to integrate pair
programming capabilities into FreeRIDE; there might be other
Ruby-based technologies that you could develop to facilitate these
virtual user group meetings.

In our case, we tend to rely on http://rafb.net/paste/ for quick/dirty
stuff. We also have a "private" version of that, but it's quite
limited - ie: doesn't keep a history, etc.

I would love to see a "team" version of nopaste, that keeps a project
history. Something that falls between Forums and CVS. Perhaps this
should be the first project -- building a small team communication
center?

Yes, and let me be clear that I'm not trying to throw cold water on
the idea. I'm glad you're excited about it and hope that it goes
somewhere. I'm one of those people out in the Ruby desert (that is the
Tennessee Valley) and until I recruit some more guys at work to get
into Ruby, the Internet is my virtual user group too.

This also seems like the appropriate place to mention the RubyCentral,
Inc. codefest grant program (see http://www.rubycentral.org); it is a
program designed to provide support for local and regional groups
working on development of Ruby libraries. The first round of
solicitations has just ended (i.e. you can't apply for a grant right
now), but if this first round of work goes well there may be
additional ones in the future.

I look forward to see how that works out, and I'm hoping for the best.
I still have a the beginnings of an xBase library that I'd love to
find a team to help flesh out.

 

[Zach Dennis]

.....but with your own ML, only use it for meetings, not for general Ruby
questions. We have a ML. Do not fork the ML.

(plenty of web-software that encourages you to make your own this, your
own that, your own everything. That does not mean it is always a good idea.)

Absolutely!

Kero,

All of your points are valid, and some of them I may/may not disagree
with, but I dont' think this Virtual Ruby Group is at that point yet to
be thinking of those things. We still need to find out who's all
interested and throw out some project ideas. Once we see what we're
working with I'm sure the participating folks will be able to throw out
suggestions for successful communication between the group, which will
work for them.

One foot forward at a time, thanks for your feedback,

Zach

 

[Shalev NessAiver]

This sounds like a great idea. While my local Ruby group is only about
50+ miles away, due to transportation issues it may as well be on the
other side of the globe. So.... I would love to join a Virtual Ruby
Group.

As for chatting - Skype is nice (I've used it before) as are a few
other programs. What we would really need to have large group
voice-chats is a system where a moderator can "give someone the floor"
and generally coordinate who speaks when. Otherwise it will degenerate
into an incomprehensible babble. As an example, Apple's newest iChat
AV software (coming out in OS X 10.4 "Tiger") has the capability to
host 10-way voice chats or 4-way video chats, with a setup similar to
the one I just described.

Also, addressing those who are brining up the issue of fragmentation:
As long as we don't go too far afield I see no problem with this group.
While the general list is a great place to discuss and ask questions,
it is often useful to form a more permanent relationship with a
specific group. This, of course, does not preclude the use of the
normal mailing list, rather it just acts as a supplement to it.

-Shalev

 

[Russ Smith]

I think this idea is great. I would love to join together to learn new
things and/or start new projects.

 

[Tanner Burson]

I would love to join in a Virtual Users Group. The nearest Ruby group
to me is several hundred mails away (wahoo for the central plains!).
I would love to get involved with a group working on small, realistic
projects, in some organized matter. I think at this stage, HOW it's
organized isn't terribly important (a rubyforge site to hold code, and
IM/Mail/IRC for communication would probably suffice). But if anyone
out there is actually attempting to get this organized, throw my name
in the hat, I'm all for it!

 

[Kero]

All of your points are valid, and some of them I may/may not disagree

with, but I dont' think this Virtual Ruby Group is at that point yet to
be thinking of those things. We still need to find out who's all
interested and throw out some project ideas. Once we see what we're
working with I'm sure the participating folks will be able to throw out
suggestions for successful communication between the group, which will
work for them.

One foot forward at a time, thanks for your feedback,

mmh, what had Treebeard to say... "Hasty" ?

May the Virtual Ruby Group be an inspiring, happy, sharing,
and-much-more community!

PS: I prolly should not have used the word "fork".
way too heavy. apologies.

+--- Kero ----------------------- kero@chello@nl ---+
| all the meaningless and empty words I spoke |
| Promises -- The Cranberries |
+--- M38c --- http://httpd.chello.nl/k.vangelder ---+

 

[Hal Fulton]

mmh, what had Treebeard to say... "Hasty" ?

Maybe you were putting a long handle on your axe.

May the Virtual Ruby Group be an inspiring, happy, sharing,
and-much-more community!

PS: I prolly should not have used the word "fork".
way too heavy. apologies.

No, I think we all understand. There's a danger of
fragmenting the Ruby community.

But I don't think that will be the case just from a
bunch of people getting together to work on projects,
and communicating incidentally via some online channel.

Hey, maybe I can even find some interest in some of
my projects... I never have much luck there...

Some people expressed interest in Tycho, but I will
likely have to go back to Fox 1.0, as 1.2 just isn't
working for me.


Hal

 

[Zach Dennis]

It looks like there are a few folks interested in the Virtual Ruby Group
(VGR) idea.

I'm not much for politics so I'm going to skip a formal Virtual Ruby
group declaration and waive membership fees and just jump into the meat
of the VRG and see if we can get some people involved!

Some project ideas have already been suggested:
- pair programming capability into FreeRide (see
http://freeride.rubyforge.org/)
- a team version of nopaste (see http://rafb.net/paste/)
- implementation of xBase library for Ruby (see
http://www.clicketyclick.dk/databases/xbase/format/)

If you have any other suggestions please throw them out!

My personal suggestion would be to start with a project that involves
VRG inter-personal-communication. This strikes me as being the most fun
for people upfront since they'll be able to see it benefiting the VRG
right away.

Since we're going to be a virtual group we can kind of be leniant (sp?)
on official meeting dates and times. Perhaps for now we just wing it
using the Ruby ML until we get a little more structured. I'd like to
avoid structurizing the VRG now and just let it happen naturally. This
way folks don't feel pressured into anything, and we can find ways of
communication and project co-operation that works well for us, instead
of trying to fit a mold (like real User Groups who meet in person) since
we'll be a little different.

My vote is for a team version of nopaste first, then after that doing
the integrating pair programming into FreeRide (which Hal, that is a
sweet idea). I think both of these would be great starting points for
VRG and they would both be directly beneficial to VRG and to others in
the Ruby community. Once we get those going, then xBase sounds fun!

What do you guys think on all of the above?

Zach

 

[Luke Graham]

I play in a game called VGA-planets. It's from the days a VGA screen was
highres. It is still played, amazingly enough!!
But the user community is totally, utterly fragmented. A shame.

That was a great game in its day.

VGA-Planets' central place is dormant. No wonder the community fell apart.

Sad to hear.

 

[Curt Hibbs]

One more suggestion: you could make a FreeRIDE plugin out of jabber4r, and
then use the jabber4r comm link both for chat-style messages and for
synchronized edited.

Curt

 

[Tanner Burson]

One more suggestion: you could make a FreeRIDE plugin out of jabber4r, and
then use the jabber4r comm link both for chat-style messages and for
synchronized edited.

I have actually thought heavily of making a jabber-based
shared-workspace editor. The idea has a lot of potential.