When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a "British accent"...

[Peter Hansen]

Grant Edwards napisa³(a):



Wasn't they all Brits?

I think one was a lumberjack (but he's okay),
which would make him a Canadian, eh?

 

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

played a lot of backarack--which is only cool because you have to bet a lot

I have no idea of what game that is... But Baccarat would
probably be considered a European variant on Blackjack by most of the
lower-end folk visiting Vegas... The goal is similar -- get closest to
some defined sum -- but differs in that, as I recall, the sum is modulo
and, more important, the "shoe" (the dealer's card box) is not handled
by the house, but by the player (BTW, that player is the one at risk
too, the player with the shoe is playing against all the others /as if/
he/she were the house -- the croupier <?> is only there to monitor the
rules and transfer the chips/cards).

--

 

[Peter Maas]

Now, what forum would you recommend? Any help would be appreciated.

alt.culture.us.*

 

[A.M. Kuchling]

What, you think they sound the same?

I think that backwoods American speech is more archaic, and therefore is
possibly closer to historical European speech. Susan Cooper uses this as a
minor plot point in her juvenile novel "King of Shadows", which is about a
20th-century Southern kid who goes back to Elizabethan times and ends up
acting with Shakespeare; his accent ensures that he doesn't sound *too*
strange in 16th-century London.

--amk

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?

Which American accent?

Texan? Georgian cracker or Maine fisherman? New York taxi driver? Bill
Clinton or Jesse Jackson or George W Bush? California Valley girl,
Arkansas redneck or boyz from th' hood? Paris Hilton or Queen Latifah?

Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we
speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please
help us with your advice on this awkward matter.

Speaking as an Australia, the typical "film voice" (eg Harrison
Ford, Tom Cruise, etc) doesn't sound unsophisticated. In fact, when we
hear it, it doesn't sound like an accent at all, such is the influence of
Hollywood. (Which is linguistically impossible, of course, since *every*
way of speaking is by definition an accent.) The Hollywood voice is a
mixture of West Coast and very light mid-Western.

But as for the rest of you, yes, you sound -- strange. It depends on the
specific regional accent. At best, just different. At worst, dumber than a
box of hammers. Which is of course unfair: there is no connection between
accent and intelligence. But by gum, some accents just sound dumber than
others. My fiancee, from Ireland, has worked and lived in the USA for half
her life, and to her you all sound like Kermit the Frog and Miss Piggy.

Lest anyone gets offended, I should point out that every English-speaking
country have accents which are considered by others to mark the speaker as
a thick yokel. In Ireland, they look down on Kerrymen. In England, even
Yorkshiremen look down on Summerset, Devon and Dorset accents. And there
is nothing as thick-sounding as a broad Ocker Aussie accent.

But don't worry, there is one thing we all agree on throughout the
English-speaking world: you Americans don't speak English.

There are a few things that you can do to help:

Herb starts with H, not E. It isn't "ouse" or "ospital" or "istory". It
isn't "erb" either. You just sound like tossers when you try to pronounce
herb in the original French. And the same with homage.

Taking of herbs, there is no BAY in basil. And oregano sounds like Ray
Romano, not oh-reg-ano.

And please, fillet of fish only has a silent T if you are speaking French.

Aluminium is al-u-min-ium, not alum-i-num.

Scientists work in a la-bor-atory, not a lab-rat-ory, even if they have
lab rats in the laboratory.

Fans of the X-Men movies and comics will remember Professor Charles
Xavier. Unless you are Spanish (Kh-avier), the X sounds like a Z: Zaviour.
But never never never Xecks-Aviour or Eggs-Savior.

Nuclear. Say no more.

 

[Dan Sommers]

What, you think they sound the same?

As a recent transplant to Appalachia, I have heard that some linguists
speculate that because of the region's cultural isolation, perhaps the
locals here do actually speak as they did (and as their ancestors in
England did) a few hundred years ago.

Regards,
Dan

 

[Alan Kennedy]

[Mike Holmans]

Some of those sonorous slow talkers from the South, and majestic bass
African-Americans like James Earl Jones or Morgan Freeman, have far
more gravitas than any English accent can: to us, such people sound
monumental.

On a related note, have you ever seen any of the original undubbed Star
Wars scenes with Darth Vader, with the original voice of the English
actor who played him, Dave Prowse (The Green Cross Man, for those who
remember ;-)

Problem was, Mr. Prowse has a pronounced West Country accent. Imagine
it: Darth Vader (in the voice of Farmer Giles): "You are a Rebel, and a
Traitor to the Empire". Hilarious :-D, and impossible to take seriously.

Thankfully they overdubbed it with James Earl Jones, "Born in
Mississippi, raised in Michigan", who produced one of the finest and
most memorable voice performances in modern cinema.

get-orff-moy-lahnd-ly y'rs

 

[Michael Hoffman]

Herb starts with H, not E. It isn't "ouse" or "ospital" or "istory". It
isn't "erb" either. You just sound like tossers when you try to pronounce
herb in the original French. And the same with homage.

Strangely enough there are Brits who pronounce "hotel" without an H at
the beginning. And even those who pronounce it with an H sometimes say
"an hotel" rather than "a hotel" because it used to be pronounced
starting with the vowel!

Similarly, the Brits should note that "idea" does not end in an "r" and
that "Eleanor" does.

 

[Tim Churches]

Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?

Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we
speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please
help us with your advice on this awkward matter.

To true Pythonistas, the only regional English accent which denotes
sophistication and high intelligence is the Dutch-English accent.

For those wishing to practice their faux-Dutch-English accent
(absolutely necessary if you are to be taken seriously at any
Python-related gathering, no matter where in the world it is held),
some examples to emulate can be found here (needs Quicktime):

http://classweb.gmu.edu/accent/dutch0.html

and here:

http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail545.html
http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail559.html

Tim C

 

[Luis M. Gonzalez]

That depends on the accent. I believe that's probably true for
the educated south of England, BBC, received pronunciation. I
don't think that's true for some of the other dialects from
northern areas (e.g. Liverpool) or the "cockney" accent.

What's exactly the "cockney" accent?
Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang?
I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common in
some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular social
class, more than a regionalism. Is that true?

 

[Brian]

Steven,

Very well written... I enjoyed reading your post!

Brian
---

 

[Grant Edwards]

What's exactly the "cockney" accent?
http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~lsp/CockneyEnglish.html

Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang? I'm
not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common
in some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular
social class, more than a regionalism. Is that true?

I think it's both.

 

[Gafoor]

But don't worry, there is one thing we all agree on throughout the
English-speaking world: you Americans don't speak English.

There are a few things that you can do to help:

Herb starts with H, not E. It isn't "ouse" or "ospital" or "istory".
It isn't "erb" either. You just sound like tossers when you try to
pronounce herb in the original French. And the same with homage.

Taking of herbs, there is no BAY in basil. And oregano sounds like Ray
Romano, not oh-reg-ano.

And please, fillet of fish only has a silent T if you are speaking
French.

'T' is always silent in the USA.
- Innernet
- Twenny

 

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

Thankfully they overdubbed it with James Earl Jones, "Born in
Mississippi, raised in Michigan", who produced one of the finest and
most memorable voice performances in modern cinema.

Ah, yes... "I am your father, Simba" <G>

--

 

[Simon Brunning]

What's exactly the "cockney" accent?
Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang?

A cockney is a *real* Londoner, that is, someone born within the City
of London, a.k.a The Square Mile. More specifically, it's someone born
"within the sound of Bow Bells" - i.e. close to St Mary le Bow, London
- <http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=EC2V+6AU>. This is within the
theoretical sound of Bow Bells, you understand - there have been
frequent and lengthy periods during which Bow Bells have not been rung
at all. There are in fact no longer any hospitals with maternity units
within the sound of Bow Bells, so there will be vanishingly few
cockneys born in future.

Strangely enough, this makes *me* a cockney, though I've never lived
in the square mile, and my accent is pretty close to received. I do
*work* in the City, though!

The cockney accent used to be pretty distinct, but these days it's
pretty much merged into the "Estuary English" accent common throughout
the South East of England.

I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common in
some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular social
class, more than a regionalism. Is that true?

Cockney was London's working class accent, pretty much, thought it was
frequently affected by members of the middle classes. Estuary English
has taken over its position as the working class accent these days,
but with a much wider regional distribution.

How off topic is this? Marvellous!

 

[Luis M. Gonzalez]

Well, yes, it is kinda off topic, but very interesting...
Being myself an argentine with spanish as mother tongue and a very bad
English, it's hard foro me to tell the difference between accents. I can
hardly tell an Irish from an English...
But what I did tell is the broad range of different accents within London
when I visited the city in 2001.

Some people seemed to speak very clear to me, and others seemed to be
speaking german!
And as far as I know, all these people were british, not immigrants (and
very hard to find indeed...).

Cheers,
Luis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Brunning" <[email protected]>
To: "Luis M. Gonzalez" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a "British
accent"...

What's exactly the "cockney" accent?
Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang?

A cockney is a *real* Londoner, that is, someone born within the City
of London, a.k.a The Square Mile. More specifically, it's someone born
"within the sound of Bow Bells" - i.e. close to St Mary le Bow, London
- <http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=EC2V+6AU>. This is within the
theoretical sound of Bow Bells, you understand - there have been
frequent and lengthy periods during which Bow Bells have not been rung
at all. There are in fact no longer any hospitals with maternity units
within the sound of Bow Bells, so there will be vanishingly few
cockneys born in future.

Strangely enough, this makes *me* a cockney, though I've never lived
in the square mile, and my accent is pretty close to received. I do
*work* in the City, though!

The cockney accent used to be pretty distinct, but these days it's
pretty much merged into the "Estuary English" accent common throughout
the South East of England.

I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common in
some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular social
class, more than a regionalism. Is that true?

Cockney was London's working class accent, pretty much, thought it was
frequently affected by members of the middle classes. Estuary English
has taken over its position as the working class accent these days,
but with a much wider regional distribution.

How off topic is this? Marvellous!

 

[Graham Fawcett]

Speaking as an Australia, ...
[snip]
But don't worry, there is one thing we all agree on throughout the
English-speaking world: you Americans don't speak English.

And lest you feel Steven's observation don't bear much weight, keep in
mind that he is speaking as an entire continent. ;-)

But, speaking as Antarctica, I must disagree. I don't think the Keepers
of the Canon of the English Language(tm) would hold up either your
Strine or our Canadian regional accents as examples of Real English
Pronunciation(tm). But that's the kind of thing that canon-keepers
obsess about, while the rest of us just get along and communicate with
one another. (By "us", I mean "us people", not "us continents" -- I
stopped speaking as Antarctica a few lines back.)

keep-your-stick-on-the-ice'ly yours,

Graham

 

[Benji York]

keep-your-stick-on-the-ice'ly yours,

Is that a Red Green reference? Man, I didn't think this could get any
more off-topic.

python-needs-more-duct-tape'ly yours,

Benji

 

[Grant Edwards]

Well, yes, it is kinda off topic, but very interesting...
Being myself an argentine with spanish as mother tongue and a
very bad English, it's hard foro me to tell the difference
between accents. I can hardly tell an Irish from an English...
But what I did tell is the broad range of different accents
within London when I visited the city in 2001.

Some people seemed to speak very clear to me, and others
seemed to be speaking german!

I'm an American who grew up watching plenty of BBC, and I run
into afew native Londoners whom I have hard time understanding.
I don't ever remember having troubly understanding people
outside the city.

 

[Tom Anderson]

python-needs-more-duct-tape'ly yours,

You're in luck: Python 3000 will replace duck typing with duct taping.

tom