Where do they tech Python officialy ?

[NicolasG]

Hi,

I want to be a professional python programmer, unfortunately I'm
working on technical support and don't have the time/patience to start
making projects my self. I tried to apply to some Python positions but
unfortunately sometimes to work as a programmer is really hard in this
world, every employee requires professional experience and you can't
really start as a beginner..

I'm planning to save some money and attend a course in any of the
universities that teach hard core Python.

Does some one have any suggestions on which University to attend ?
Alternatives solutions are welcome..

Regards,
Nicolas G.

 

[Danyelle Gragsone]

My school does damn near all of the main ones.. BUT python .. lame..

 

[Cameron Laird]

Hi,

I want to be a professional python programmer, unfortunately I'm
working on technical support and don't have the time/patience to start
making projects my self. I tried to apply to some Python positions but
unfortunately sometimes to work as a programmer is really hard in this
world, every employee requires professional experience and you can't
really start as a beginner..

I'm planning to save some money and attend a course in any of the
universities that teach hard core Python.

Does some one have any suggestions on which University to attend ?
Alternatives solutions are welcome..

.
.
.
Autodidacticism is an alternative; feel free to regard <URL:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining > as a member of
that class.

If you, for example, were to teach yourself Python, then
volunteer with prominent extensions or even the core (there's
plenty to do in regard to documentation and testing), you'd
soon have accumulated quite a bit of experience that enlightened
employers recognize is as professional as any other.

I leave to others the chore of summarizing all the universities
with Python offerings.

 

[BartlebyScrivener]

Does some one have any suggestions on which University to attend ?
Alternatives solutions are welcome..

You might like this thread. Or go to comp.lang.python and search for
"python taught in schools"

http://tinyurl.com/2zlsxl

rd

 

[supercooper]

http://home.earthlink.net/~python-training/

I highly recommend Mark Lutz. Took the class last fall in Estes Park
and it was worth every penny.

 

[Mike C. Fletcher]

NicolasG wrote:
....

I'm planning to save some money and attend a course in any of the
universities that teach hard core Python.

Does some one have any suggestions on which University to attend ?

In Canada, the University of Toronto is planning to switch all
first-year Comp-Sci courses to Python this September. Last I heard the
University of Waterloo allowed Python submissions for most assignments
in most courses. But those are "learn hard-core computer science using
Python" solutions, not "learn hard-core Python" solutions.

If you really want to learn hard-core Python, probably your best bet is:

* read everything Tim Peters has ever written in comp.lang.python
(this will take a few months), start with "import this"
* read everything the PyPy guys have ever written (particularly
Christian and Armin)
* read and try to beat the more exotic recipes in the Python cookbook
* read the papers from the various PyCons on metaclasses and the
like, build a couple of dozen metaclasses and descriptors

But jumping into "hardcore" first might not be the best approach. Many
would suggest just learning "normal" Python first, *then* moving onto
the hardcore stuff.

HTH,
Mike

--
________________________________________________
Mike C. Fletcher
Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
http://www.vrplumber.com
http://blog.vrplumber.com

 

[Paul Rubin]

Does some one have any suggestions on which University to attend ?
Alternatives solutions are welcome..

If you have a good programming background in other languages, you
should easily be able to pick up Python by reading the manual.

If you don't have a programming background and want to acquire one
through a university program, then it doesn't matter that much what
language the university uses, since if it's not Python, after
completing the program you'll still be able to easily pick up Python
by reading the manual.


If you're having trouble with Python because you're new at
programming, I can sympathize--I don't think it's the most
beginner-friendly of languages despite the efforts in that direction
by the designers. But once you understand the principles of
programming, Python is easy.

I think Python is not used in university programs very much. Look for
one that uses SICP (Scheme) or CTM (Mozart/Oz) or a functional
language like Haskell, in preference to the ones that use Java (the
Cobol of the 1990's). With some reasonable experience in Scheme or
Mozart or Haskell, plus a Python manual, you'll be well on your way.

The SICP textbook is here:

http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/

Maybe it's gotten a little bit old fashioned by now, but it's still
good reading.

 

[NicolasG]

If you have a good programming background in other languages, you
should easily be able to pick up Python by reading the manual.

Dear all, thank you for your info. I forgot to mention that I already
know how to program in Python (basic), my knowledge derives from a
very good level of C (University level) and I have use python to build
some pages in Zope plus some minor programs I created..

The problem is that I would like to work as a Python programmer but
all the job vacancies I can find requires a couple of years of
professional experience ... that I don't have. How a wanna be
programmer can start working as a programmer if there is no chance to
start from somewhere ? That's the reason I created this topic.

 

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

NicolasG a écrit :

Hi,

I want to be a professional python programmer,

While there are (more and more) professional programmers using Python,
either as their main language or not, there's no such thing as a
"professional Python programmer", because being a proofessional
programmer requires much more than knowing one programming language.

unfortunately I'm
working on technical support and don't have the time/patience to start
making projects my self. I tried to apply to some Python positions but
unfortunately sometimes to work as a programmer is really hard in this
world, every employee requires professional experience

You surely won't get any position as a programmer if you don't have any
experience as a programmer. But it doesn't necessarily has to be
"professional" experience - being a contributor to a serious OSS project
is nowadays considered as valid experience by some shops.

and you can't
really start as a beginner..

Yes you can - obviously, everyone has to start somewhere !-) But being a
beginner doesn't mean having strictly no experience - just that you
didn't get paid so far.

I'm planning to save some money and attend a course in any of the
universities that teach hard core Python.

Does some one have any suggestions on which University to attend ?
Alternatives solutions are welcome..

Don't focus on Python. The important part is to learn programming - once
you'll be there, learning Python by yourself won't be a problem. And I
second Paul Rubin's advice: avoid universities teaching Java as the main
language.

 

[Paul Rubin]

The problem is that I would like to work as a Python programmer but
all the job vacancies I can find requires a couple of years of
professional experience ... that I don't have. How a wanna be
programmer can start working as a programmer if there is no chance to
start from somewhere ? That's the reason I created this topic.

Why would you want to become a programmer? Programmers smell bad,
they have no social life, they get treated like crap by everyone.
They can get paid pretty well but then they spend all the money on
useless electronic junk so they still live like bums. There is only
one reason to be a programmer, which is that the drive to program
burns in you like a fire. But in that case don't ask how to become a
programmer, because you are already one, so welcome to the ranks ;-).

 

[Jarek Zgoda]

Paul Rubin napisa³(a):

Why would you want to become a programmer? Programmers smell bad,
they have no social life, they get treated like crap by everyone.
They can get paid pretty well but then they spend all the money on
useless electronic junk so they still live like bums. There is only
one reason to be a programmer, which is that the drive to program
burns in you like a fire. But in that case don't ask how to become a
programmer, because you are already one, so welcome to the ranks ;-).

+1 QOTW

 

[NicolasG]

Why would you want to become a programmer? Programmers smell bad,
they have no social life, they get treated like crap by everyone.
They can get paid pretty well but then they spend all the money on
useless electronic junk so they still live like bums.

I wouldn't call this person programmer , I would call him a geek

one reason to be a programmer, which is that the drive to program
burns in you like a fire. But in that case don't ask how to become a
programmer, because you are already one, so welcome to the ranks ;-).

Yes true , I'm already a programmer.. doing technical support for my
company products in a call center. I hate my job, I hate the moment I
have to wake up to go work ! I hate that moment I have to go sleep
when I think of the next working day morning.
Python is what I like, I would love to be more creative with this
language and be able to produce things that I can't right now..
Why not try to find a work that you would like ? I don't want to work
as a programmer to became one because I'm already a programmer, I just
want to work as a programmer ..

 

[gregarican]

I wouldn't call this person programmer , I would call him a geek


Yes true , I'm already a programmer.. doing technical support for my
company products in a call center. I hate my job, I hate the moment I
have to wake up to go work ! I hate that moment I have to go sleep
when I think of the next working day morning.
Python is what I like, I would love to be more creative with this
language and be able to produce things that I can't right now..
Why not try to find a work that you would like ? I don't want to work
as a programmer to became one because I'm already a programmer, I just
want to work as a programmer ..

You sound like Peter from "Office Space." Each day is the worst day of
his life. Hypnotherapy...Python. What's the difference

 

[Neil Cerutti]

I think Python is not used in university programs very much.
Look for one that uses SICP (Scheme) or CTM (Mozart/Oz) or a
functional language like Haskell, in preference to the ones
that use Java (the Cobol of the 1990's). With some reasonable
experience in Scheme or Mozart or Haskell, plus a Python
manual, you'll be well on your way.

The SICP textbook is here:

http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/

Maybe it's gotten a little bit old fashioned by now, but it's
still good reading.

The only weakness I'm aware of is how well it suits its original
target audience--engineers who need an introduction to computer
science. If your aren't an engineer, I might recommend _How to
Design Programs_ (http://www.htdp.org/), or _Concrete Abstractions_
(http://gustavus.edu/+max/concrete-abstractions.html) instead.

One cool advantage of SICP is the free online lectures, which
helps make up for its non-programmer slant.
http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/

 

[Beliavsky]

Autodidacticism is an alternative; feel free to regard <URL:http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining> as a member of
that class.

If you, for example, were to teach yourself Python, then
volunteer with prominent extensions or even the core (there's
plenty to do in regard to documentation and testing), you'd
soon have accumulated quite a bit of experience that enlightened
employers recognize is as professional as any other.

I'd guess that it's a lot harder to create/extend Python than to use
it, so I suggest that the OP first focus on becoming good Python
programmers. An important aspect of a course in Python programming
would be instructor comments on one's code. I wonder if any trainers
do code reviews by email.

 

[Cameron Laird]

.
.
.

Yes true , I'm already a programmer.. doing technical support for my
company products in a call center. I hate my job, I hate the moment I
have to wake up to go work ! I hate that moment I have to go sleep
when I think of the next working day morning.
Python is what I like, I would love to be more creative with this
language and be able to produce things that I can't right now..
Why not try to find a work that you would like ? I don't want to work
as a programmer to became one because I'm already a programmer, I just
want to work as a programmer ..

What repetitive, mind-numbing, soul-killing,
dreary, tedious aspects of your current job
are susceptible to automation with the help
of the computer in front of you? Let Python
be the vehicle for this automation--and
you've become a Python programmer.

 

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Omari Norman a écrit :

Just curious--what language would you recommend as most
beginner-friendly?

C ?-)

(sorry, just kidding.)

My previous programming experience was with BASIC--and I think it is
true that BASIC will, in many ways, rot your brain.

So will Java.

I learned programming with Hypertalk (MacIntosh's Hypercard scripting
language, which more or less gave birth to AppleTalk), then RealBasic
(Mac's Better VB-like), then VB, then Java, then C, then bits of Pascal,
then Python, and this is where I started to see the light. But I had
hard time unlearning all those java-ish anal-retentive stupidities and
arbitrary overcomplexifications before I really enjoyed Python. Playing
with Lisp (Common Lisp and Scheme) and Smalltalk helped getting rid of
mental pollution wrt/ declarative static typing. To be honest, playing
with Haskell and O'Caml also helped me understanding that static typing
is not necessarily bad by itself.

I had used QBasic
and, later, a little VBA and some PHP. It took some time to unlearn some
bad things (object orientation in VBA seems to be mostly a hack, for
example, while PHP seems to be a big hack generally)

Well... this is not exactly a scoop !-)

but it seems to me
that Python helped me learn my first modern programming language.




I had heard of these languages, but learning them is a bit discouraging
because (Java excepted) they don't seem to get much practical use.

Before considering practical use (FWIW, Python was pretty far from
mainstream 7 year ago), you should ask yourself how learning one of
these languages will affect the way you thing about programming. While
mostly in the imperative/OO camp, Python stole quite a lot from
functional languages, and this is obviously a GoodThing(tm).

My 2 cents

 

[Omari Norman]

If you're having trouble with Python because you're new at
programming, I can sympathize--I don't think it's the most
beginner-friendly of languages despite the efforts in that direction
by the designers.

Just curious--what language would you recommend as most
beginner-friendly?

My previous programming experience was with BASIC--and I think it is
true that BASIC will, in many ways, rot your brain. I had used QBasic
and, later, a little VBA and some PHP. It took some time to unlearn some
bad things (object orientation in VBA seems to be mostly a hack, for
example, while PHP seems to be a big hack generally) but it seems to me
that Python helped me learn my first modern programming language.

I think Python is not used in university programs very much. Look for
one that uses SICP (Scheme) or CTM (Mozart/Oz) or a functional
language like Haskell, in preference to the ones that use Java (the
Cobol of the 1990's). With some reasonable experience in Scheme or
Mozart or Haskell, plus a Python manual, you'll be well on your way.

I had heard of these languages, but learning them is a bit discouraging
because (Java excepted) they don't seem to get much practical use.

In college I had a programming course that used C++. Big mistake in my
view, and we didn't learn much in the way of true principles (in
retrospect it would have been nice if they had us use GCC rather than
Borland on Windows.)

 

[Neil Cerutti]

Just curious--what language would you recommend as most
beginner-friendly?

I recommend the symbolic logo-like Scheme used in _Simply
Scheme_. It works with sentences and words polymorphically.

(first smith)
s

(first '(smith jones cooper))
smith

The books exercises revolve around writing functions like
pig-latin, reverse, palindrom?, and other word and sentence
manipulations. Real Scheme primitives are not introduced until
lots of programming ideas have been conveyed.

http://www.amazon.com/Simply-Scheme-Introducing-Computer-Science/dp/0262082810

In college I had a programming course that used C++. Big
mistake in my view, and we didn't learn much in the way of true
principles (in retrospect it would have been nice if they had
us use GCC rather than Borland on Windows.)

I can imagine a course using C++ that taught basic programming
concepts; it would teach the rudiments of using the STL to start,
and work with vectors, lists and maps. See _Accelerated C++_ for
a great example.

But most C++ courses start with the lowest level functionality of
C++, soon embroiling inexperienced programmers with the
difficulties of manual dynamic memory management. That's a big
side-show.

 

[Paul Rubin]

Just curious--what language would you recommend as most
beginner-friendly?

I'm not sure what to suggest, I don't pay much attention to this
area. Maybe Logo?

I had heard of these languages, but learning them is a bit discouraging
because (Java excepted) they don't seem to get much practical use.

I wouldn't worry about that. It's like saying it's discouraging to
learn in engineering class how to solve problems involving frictionless
pulleys because you can't buy those in practice. The idea in each of
the above cases is to strip the problem to its bare essentials for
study. Dealing with real-world complications can come later.