Why not adopt "Python Style" indentation for Ruby?

[David A. Black]

I read the article, David. I understand what the article tries to say:
"After you've heard Matz discuss how he thinks about these things, all
the more do you realize that "to make C++ programmers feel more at home"
just isn't in the ballpark."

My intention of syntax improvement on "END" is more like to make less
typing and eye catching to find matching code, rather than to make ruby
feel more like C/C++.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear completely.

For better or worse, I had drifted a bit from the original topic (as I
mentioned at the end of my post).

I understand as a newbie, Robert and most others suggest me to use ruby
more to see if I have different feeling about "END". But to make my
point more explicit, the intention of my original post is rather than a
syntax suggestion change, but more a support of ruby creator MATS's
intention and experiment (already made) on alternative syntax of "END".
Mats's this syntax experiment likely involved other ruby guru's support
in ruby core team. They are not newbies like me or just casually jumped
in this decision, right?

I just additionally brought about some examples of candidates for the
alternative of keyword "END". I agreed with Robert that those
candidates may not be realistic. Mats has the final decision which I
will support no matter he decide to change or not, or what the new
syntax be like.

To make it short, I am on Mats side, who expressed and experimented a
syntax alternative for "END", while it seems Robert, David and some
others are on a different side with ruby's creator, Mats. That's sounds
a little interesting, huh?

No, not interesting at all. I'm on a different side from Matz on lots
of proposed Ruby changes, and a few that make it in. I think everyone
is; no one just says "Great!" to every single feature of Ruby, and
Matz has never asked or expected us to. Please don't start playing
some kind of loyalty-to-Matz game. I'm sure he's seen this thread and
will take it under advisement.


David

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[Robert Klemme]

My intention of syntax improvement on "END" is more like to make less
typing and eye catching to find matching code, rather than to make ruby
feel more like C/C++.

Yet at the same time you make reading Ruby code harder for those used to
the existing syntax. Plus, if that change became reality there was
potentially a lot of code that needed changing.

I understand as a newbie, Robert and most others suggest me to use ruby
more to see if I have different feeling about "END". But to make my
point more explicit, the intention of my original post is rather than a
syntax suggestion change, but more a support of ruby creator MATS's
intention and experiment (already made) on alternative syntax of "END".

So you no longer say "let's use Phython style indentation" but rather "I
support experimenting with the syntax of Ruby once in a while to find
out whether we benefit from that change". That sounds quite different
and I am guessing that we would not have seen this discussion if you
stated it like this in the first place...

To make it short, I am on Mats side, who expressed and experimented a
syntax alternative for "END", while it seems Robert, David and some
others are on a different side with ruby's creator, Mats.

I would not be so sure of that. But even if it were true, what does it
matter?

That's sounds a little interesting, huh?

Does it? What do we learn from that other than that there is
disagreement in the Ruby community about this and that? I for my part
get the impression that it is important for you to identify groups of
people with common opinions and locate yourself among those groups.

"Open", as my understanding, is allowing others to say something and not
forbid them.

I cannot remember having seen someone forbid you voicing your opinions -
it's not possible anyway. "Open" also means to deal with the world as
it is - this includes programming languages.

I won't feel bad, impatient,or angry if other people brings
up suggestions which I don't agree, and won't use sarcastic tones to
reply newbie's messages.

That's a noble attitude. Unfortunately not everybody adheres to it all
the time - especially in public electronic forums. I am afraid, you
will have to deal with sarcastic comments - one way or the other.

I apologize for my rush on my some
inappropriate comments/reactions anyway.

I did not feel offended. Apology accepted - just in case. ;-)

Cheers

robert

 

[Frasier Mruby]

No, not interesting at all. I'm on a different side from Matz on lots
of proposed Ruby changes, and a few that make it in. I think everyone
is; no one just says "Great!" to every single feature of Ruby, and
Matz has never asked or expected us to.

Understood. The taste of people are not always the same. Discussions
are unavoidable in some cases. I trust Matz and ruby core team (probably
including you) are sensible gurus and can use their best judgements to
further improve this already lovely language.

 

[Frasier Mruby]

So you no longer say "let's use Phython style indentation"

I didn't intend to propose to Python style at the beginning. In my first
post in this thread, I said:

Posted by Frasier Mruby (fmruby) on 06.10.2008 19:37
I understand and agree your comment that ruby had better to have
something to close the code block.

My second post:

James, thank you for you fast response.
I didn't propose to get rid of the "END" like python does, but wondered
if there could be cleaner syntax to as an alternative for "END".

but rather "I
support experimenting with the syntax of Ruby once in a while to find
out whether we benefit from that change".

Exactly my intention and wish. Maybe the thread is getting too long to
make people get lost to find out earlier posts.

Unlike many of rubists, I actually can see the value of python
indentation. But on the other hand, I have experienced most the
drawbacks of python indentation as Matz pointed out. I agree that
adding something to end the code block is a must-have, especially in
template webpage.

Have a nice weekend, all.