7 Ruby Programming ebook

[As23 Mega]

Pablo,
It's amusing that the thread you referenced involves "Honest" members
of Users Group receiving free books from the publisher in trade for
providing reviews. I have no reason to be angry about that.
You see, there are benefits to having integrity.

Good luck to you.

You keep pandering to the best corporate insterests, that sure is
"integrity". Keep making tha fat cats fatter when dealing with knowledge
as if it was a merchandise and not a right.

The internet offers a voice and power to those who can't afford
capitalist imposed quotas. Or do you feel that only US and Europe and
entitled to knowledge because they cas easily throw away X amount of
dollars while other people base their economy working in factories for
you to wear snickers and cool t-shirts and eat tropical fruits and
coffee?

Maybe you are one of those that just KNOWS that the poor are poor
because they are incompetent and lazy? Tell you what, you wake up from
your comfortable living and then judge others in not so comfortable
situations for trying to learn by downloading a goddamn book, ok? no?

 

[Phillip Gawlowski]

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As23 Mega wrote:

|
| You keep pandering to the best corporate insterests, that sure is
| "integrity". Keep making tha fat cats fatter when dealing with knowledge
| as if it was a merchandise and not a right.

It *is* a merchandise. TANSTAFL. People invested their time and effort
in it, and that deserves compensation.

| The internet offers a voice and power to those who can't afford
| capitalist imposed quotas. Or do you feel that only US and Europe and
| entitled to knowledge because they cas easily throw away X amount of
| dollars while other people base their economy working in factories for
| you to wear snickers and cool t-shirts and eat tropical fruits and
| coffee?

Bullshit. Everybody is free to buy the goods. If they can't afford it:
Tough luck. I can't afford a Ferrari, yet I'm not stealing one.

You know, that's what is called 'integrity'. 'Honor'. 'Fairness'.

Oh, and I'm offering you the once in a lifetime chance of putting your
money where your mouth is: Send me a cheque over all your money, so I
can attain the standard of living I feel entitled to. Deal?

(What, you think the poor are only limited to Africa and Latin America?
I can't afford to buy all the books I want, either. Yet I am not
defrauding others of their work. Funny how that works.)

| Maybe you are one of those that just KNOWS that the poor are poor
| because they are incompetent and lazy?

Zimbabwe, Cuba, North Korea.. The leaders creating the poverty sure seem
incompetent.

| Tell you what, you wake up from
| your comfortable living and then judge others in not so comfortable
| situations for trying to learn by downloading a goddamn book, ok? no?

Tell you what: Visit an Econ 101 course, and please, please read The
Capital, too, not just the Communist Manifesto, ok? no?

Also: There are absolutely free, no strings attached alternatives to
defrauding people like Dave Thomas, or Matz, or Peter Cooper, which are
even regularly advertised on this very mailing list.

Say, do you defraud the plumber, too who fixes your sink? Your
electrician? The mechanic fixing your car? The bus driver? The taxi driver?

Before you start trolling, at least do a *little* research. This is
insulting to the list's members.

- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com

~ I imagine bugs and girls have a dim perception that nature played a
cruel trick on them, but they lack the intelligence to really comprehend
the magnitude of it. -- Calvin
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[James Gray]

Please folks. This is Ruby Talk.

Can we get back to Ruby now?

James Edward Gray II

 

[Dave Thomas]

You keep pandering to the best corporate insterests, that sure is
"integrity". Keep making tha fat cats fatter when dealing with =20
knowledge
as if it was a merchandise and not a right.

Knowledge is not merchandise. When you buy a book, you're paying the =20
author for his or her time organizing that knowledge for you=97you're =20=

paying for a service. If you don't want to pay for that service, =20
you're free to use the available knowledge to learn just the same way =20=

the original author did. You can read the source code, write the =20
thousands of lines of code, read the web, email experts, put stuff out =20=

for review, and so on. For most people, the money spent on a book =20
repays the opportunity cost of the time they'd otherwise spent =20
gathering, filtering and organizing the knowledge for themselves. If =20
that equation doesn't work in particular circumstances, then the =20
source knowledge is still there. But stealing the book is not =20
defeating a capitalist machine. It's simply a disincentive for that =20
author to put the effort in to creating another book.


Dave

 

[Memoman Br]

Bullshit. Everybody is free to buy the goods. If they can't afford it:

Tough luck. I can't afford a Ferrari, yet I'm not stealing one.

Oh man, now this is just sad! To you a book is mere merchandise, to
millions of people is knowledge, power, opportunity. A big compendium of
wisdom that is to be valued and cherish, above the mighty (haha!) dollar
and those who worship it. A Ferrari? Why the hell would somebody want to
support a Ferrari that is the equivalent of thousands of invaluable
books! Not all authors are money grabbing whores, some actually care
that their knowledge is spread

Before you start trolling, at least do a *little* research. This is
insulting to the list's members

Yeah, clearly I'm the one who is deluded here.
Still despite you, I choose to believe in mankind. Oh and I did get
economy lessons, I actually passed 101 with 100%, not that it matters
though, because clearly not everybody learns, there's more to the real
world than a classroom and a book you know.
You better stick to technical questions my Kapitalist-Jugend.

 

[Phillip Gawlowski]

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Laurynn wrote:
| Found this on free ebook site.
|
| # Addison Wesley The Ruby Way 2nd Edition Oct 2006
| # learning-ruby
| # OReilly - Ruby In a Nutshell
| # OReilly Ruby Cookbook Jul 2006
| # Programming Ruby - The Pragmatic Programmer's Guide
| # Ruby Cookbook (OReilly, 2006)
| # SYNGRESS-Ruby Developers Guide
|
| http://ebook.mazudi.com/?w=ruby

Fun fact:

"You shall not, shall not agree to, and shall not authorize or encourage
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reasonably determined by Google; (ii) upload, transmit or otherwise
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Service for any fraudulent or inappropriate purpose; or (v) act in any
way that violates the Program Policies, as may be revised from time to
time."

Google Mail's Terms of Service.

I took the liberty of reporting this email to Google.

That being said, I bow out of this discussion.

- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com

Every person who has mastered a profession is a skeptic concerning it.
~ -- George Bernard Shaw
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[Camilo]

[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

Pablo
The best option is to get the free books that are available. That way
everybody benefits. Those "free versions" are insulting to the authors,
since they do not get paid at all. Hey, ask nicely and somebody might send
you a free used copy.

Rest of the world,
An O'Reilly book costing $45 in the USA costs significantly much more in
Peru; instead of making a straight conversion, think on monthly minimum
wages. A $45 book at $7 per hour means roughly 6.5 hours. Monthly minimum
wage in Peru amounts to $179, which amounts 25% of a monthly minimum wage.
Do you see the disparity, and the lack of incentives for people in Peru to
get the book through Amazon?
So, educate the user and help them find legal sources, instead of accusing
them of thieving.

Best regards,

Camilo

 

[Avdi Grimm]

Rest of the world,
An O'Reilly book costing $45 in the USA costs significantly much more in
Peru; instead of making a straight conversion, think on monthly minimum
wages.

I was under the impression that publishers priced differently in
different markets. Is this not the case?

--
Avdi

Home: http://avdi.org
Developer Blog: http://avdi.org/devblog/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/avdi
Journal: http://avdi.livejournal.com

 

[Michael Schuerig]

I was under the impression that publishers priced differently in
different markets. Is this not the case?

That may be true for academic textbooks where several publishers
have "international" (read: non-US) editions. For technical books in
general this doesn't appear to be true. I live in Germany and often
find that it is cheaper to order books from amazon.com than from
amazon.de, even taking customs duty into account.

Michael

 

[Avdi Grimm]

That may be true for academic textbooks where several publishers
have "international" (read: non-US) editions. For technical books in
general this doesn't appear to be true. I live in Germany and often
find that it is cheaper to order books from amazon.com than from
amazon.de, even taking customs duty into account.

I wouldn't expect the prices to be reduced for an advanced Western
nation like Germany. I'm curious about the pricing in the third
world.

--
Avdi

Home: http://avdi.org
Developer Blog: http://avdi.org/devblog/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/avdi
Journal: http://avdi.livejournal.com

 

[Phillip Gawlowski]

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Michael Schuerig wrote:
| On Thursday 22 May 2008, Avdi Grimm wrote:
|>> Rest of the world,
|>> An O'Reilly book costing $45 in the USA costs significantly much
|>> more in Peru; instead of making a straight conversion, think on
|>> monthly minimum wages.
|> I was under the impression that publishers priced differently in
|> different markets. Is this not the case?
|
| That may be true for academic textbooks where several publishers
| have "international" (read: non-US) editions. For technical books in
| general this doesn't appear to be true. I live in Germany and often
| find that it is cheaper to order books from amazon.com than from
| amazon.de, even taking customs duty into account.

This may be an artifact of the German Buchpreisbindung.

For our international friends:

Books are a cultural good, and thus not something you should leave to
the market forces, which also means a lower VAT of 7% instead of 19%.
Therefore, books are priced according to page count and type of binding
(hardcovers can be more expensive than softcovers, which in turn can be
more expensive than pocketbooks).

Which means that highly successful books like by Stephen King are as
expensive (or cheap) as the less successful books (like Wolfgang Holbein).

(N.B.: The German book market is thriving, and new talent, German as
well as international, gets published, too.)

However: This only counts for books produced and sold in Germany, and
that aren't damaged (this leads to funny situations, where books get
priced cheaper that only have a black marker going across the pages on
the outside, say the bottom, and which are otherwise fine). Imported
books can be priced as the retailer likes, as they aren't covered by the
Buchpreisbindung.

This makes it unattractive to go to the length of translating a
technical book (most of us developers can speak English anyhow, if only
for professional reasons) and printing a German version of it.

This also means, that the books have to be imported at a cost, and that,
in turn, increases the price for the end-consumer.

And yes, especially with the US Dollar being as weak as it is, importing
a book from the US is cheaper (especially if you manage to stay below
the customs duty threshold of 5 Euros: Then it is only a trip to customs
to pick up the books).

Also, Tyler Cowen touched on this subject in a recent blog post:
<http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2008/05/why-are-books-s.html>

- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com

Use recursive procedures for recursively-defined data structures.
~ - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher)
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[Phillip Gawlowski]

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Avdi Grimm wrote:

| I wouldn't expect the prices to be reduced for an advanced Western
| nation like Germany. I'm curious about the pricing in the third
| world.

I noted this in my other email, but you might miss that, so:
<http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2008/05/why-are-books-s.html>

- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com

10 years old is a good age to get stuck at.
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[Michael Schuerig]

This may be an artifact of the German Buchpreisbindung.

As you explain yourself, it does not apply to non-german books.

Michael

 

[Patrick Aljord]

Pablo
The best option is to get the free books that are available. That way
everybody benefits. Those "free versions" are insulting to the authors,
since they do not get paid at all. Hey, ask nicely and somebody might send
you a free used copy.

Camillo,

There is no used copy of ruby (or any other o'reilly book) books in
Peru. The only way would be to buy a used version on Amazon or Ebay.
Unfortunately, sending it to Peru would cost at least 50$ + the cost
of the used book. Not very interesting. As for finding somebody
willing to send you a free copy (and waste 50$ for you), good luck
about that.

 

[Patrick Aljord]

Indeed. According to the Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto, this general
lack of property rights is one of the main limitations to economic growth in
the region.

The non respect of copyrights is not what's limiting Latin America
growth, believe me (or google for it) they have way worse problems. I
know that the US is trying to push for DMCA-like and software patents
to other Latin American countries though the TLC and NAFTA but those
won't help at all if not make the situation worse.

 

[Patrick Aljord]

Bullshit. Everybody is free to buy the goods. If they can't afford it:
Tough luck. I can't afford a Ferrari, yet I'm not stealing one.

The problem is that here in Peru and most of South America, almost
nobody can spend 45$ on a book and education really sucks. So I guess
you suggest that people should just keep there 'integrity'. 'Honor'
and 'Fairness' by not downloading books and stay ignorant?

Zimbabwe, Cuba, North Korea.. The leaders creating the poverty sure seem

incompetent.

Ok so because leaders are incompetent I should just wait for democracy
to come one day and stay ignorant in the meantime? That's weird.

 

[Michael W. Ryder]

Camillo,

There is no used copy of ruby (or any other o'reilly book) books in
Peru. The only way would be to buy a used version on Amazon or Ebay.
Unfortunately, sending it to Peru would cost at least 50$ + the cost
of the used book. Not very interesting. As for finding somebody
willing to send you a free copy (and waste 50$ for you), good luck
about that.

Where are you getting your $50 figure? Sending a priority mail flat
rate envelope is about $13 for an item weighing up to 4 pounds. Larger
items cost more of course, but a lot of books should fit in that rate.
By the way, that rate is about the same we pay . If you are curious
about the shipping costs go to usps.com and select shipping.
As a person that has spent over $40 shipping a computer to Australia,
before the costs went through the ceiling, I know there are those who
will send items to other countries at their expense. I don't know if
there is anyone in this group that would do this in this case but it is
something to keep in mind.

 

[Patrick Aljord]

Where are you getting your $50 figure? Sending a priority mail flat rate
envelope is about $13 for an item weighing up to 4 pounds. Larger items
cost more of course, but a lot of books should fit in that rate. By the way,
that rate is about the same we pay . If you are curious about the shipping
costs go to usps.com and select shipping.

I doubt 7 ruby books enters in an envelope but anyway...

I don't know if there is anyone
in this group that would do this in this case but it is something to keep in
mind.

Get real, thousands if not millions of devs need those books, do you
think it would be possible to find thousands or millions of westerners
to send used copy for free? Why should we get out of our way anyway to
respect US copyright laws when it's obvious that the US doesn't give a
damn about other countries laws... Anyway this is off topic so I'll
stop here for this thread, let's get back to ruby hacking

 

[Michael W. Ryder]

I doubt 7 ruby books enters in an envelope but anyway...


Get real, thousands if not millions of devs need those books, do you
think it would be possible to find thousands or millions of westerners
to send used copy for free? Why should we get out of our way anyway to
respect US copyright laws when it's obvious that the US doesn't give a
damn about other countries laws... Anyway this is off topic so I'll
stop here for this thread, let's get back to ruby hacking

Its this attitude that prevents me and probably others from helping.
No, we can't send everyone in the world that would like a free book a
copy of our used ones, but that doesn't stop us from helping when we
can. Your post reminds me of a news article I just read about Myanmar.
They are complaining that they aren't receiving enough "free money"
for the cyclone victims after they told the world to leave them alone.

 

[Vassilis Rizopoulos]

You are dealing with people, Patrick, who build up a huge head of
righteous indignation while forgetting that the USA, at the turn of
the 20th century, didn't respect foreign copyright. "Intellectual
property protection" only started becoming an issue in the USA when
they had some worth protecting. Now they don't want any other
countries to use the same techniques they did to bootstrap.

But really, copyright is off-topic I would suspect. We should
probably continue this discussion off-list.

Yes it is, but I can't resist the temptation anymore. You can draw a
parallel with programming here.
Most of us working in non-web, coprorate environments find that getting
Ruby accepted in projects is usually a very hard cause. Some of us
actualy ignore tool/development guidelines and get the job done -
usually being 3 times faster and achieving milestones within time and
budget constraints exonarates my sins.
It's (r)evolution from the inside. I've been working and talking about
Ruby within my own company for over 5 years now. At first I was deemed
graphical and I am still the target of puns and diggs, but suddenly I am
only one of very few (like 3 in 300) who didn't fall asleep during the
long dictatorship of statically typed languages at work.

So while I will not condone pirating books for anyone having access to
them (and by that meaning having the money or not being prevented to buy
them), I can also cannot hide the fact that when I was a penniless
student in the backwaters of Greece in the early 90s I pirated like
crazy (think xerox copies not PDFs): It's what's enabled me to pay for
books now.

Knowledge is a very powerful thing. You keep it from people and their
ignorance makes them selfish, irresponsible and greedy. Educated people
won't usually in good conscience pirate a book (music and movies are a
different thing I imagine - mostly to do with the tyranny of
distribution networks). They will come back and pay for it (yes, yes,
generic labeling and aphorisms here). So I say educate them and
yourself, and when anybody wants to prevent you (by setting development
guidelines, ridiculous import taxes or outright banning deviant texts)
go around them any way you can.

V.-