C Book from comp.lang.c !!!

B

Ben Pfaff

Kelsey Bjarnason said:
Perhaps, then, what we need *is* a decent tutorial. We've already got
excellent references - but how many actually usable books are there that
start you off with "Hello world" and work on up?

How many of us regulars are in a position to judge what is a good
tutorial for beginners? Sure, we can say whether the text in the
book is *correct*. But can we really judge the quality of an
introductory text given all we know?
 
K

Kelsey Bjarnason

How many of us regulars are in a position to judge what is a good
tutorial for beginners? Sure, we can say whether the text in the
book is *correct*. But can we really judge the quality of an
introductory text given all we know?

What, creating tutorials should be left to those who don't know the
subject? Of course not. As people who _do_ know the subject, you write
such that you don't apply a load of as-yet-uncovered material, then back
it up by handing off to people at various experience levels to see if it
retains readability, presents the information in an accessible manner and
doesn't require things they haven't learned yet.
 
B

ByteSurfer

This newsgroup's FAQ qualifies as such a book. Check the Acknowledgements
section.

Dan


I think of coming out with the opinion of writing a book from
Programmer was a nice thing to do.. Was it a e-book or it just a book
that we can buy in the stores? How bout getting into FAQ books first
then only thinking of implement the book of full version one ... the
best was the book compile of alogarithm and problem solving to enhance
and to challenge the brain of the reader. think that will be more
efficient. rather than "lame" introduction to C programming and the
"Hello World" coding.

Althought, that i never even saw how was the book of "C unleashed",
But this was my suggestion.

Please do tell me how to get the book .. Prefer "electronic" copy.

Regard,
ByteSurfer
 
M

Martin Ambuhl

ByteSurfer said:
I think of coming out with the opinion of writing a book from
Programmer was a nice thing to do.. Was it a e-book or it just a book
that we can buy in the stores? How bout getting into FAQ books first
then only thinking of implement the book of full version one

C Programming Faqs: Frequently Asked Questions
by Steve Summit
List Price: $34.99
389 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 1.11 x 9.27 x 6.30
Publisher: Addison-Wesley Professional; 1st edition (November 1, 1995)
ISBN: 0201845199

> Althought, that i never even saw how was the book of "C unleashed",
But this was my suggestion.

Please do tell me how to get the book .. Prefer "electronic" copy.

C Unleashed
by Richard Heathfield, Lawrence Kirby, Mike Lee, Mathew Watson, Ben
Pfaff, Dann Corbit, Peter Seebach, Brett Fishburne, Scott Fluhrer,
Ian Woods, Sam Hobbs, Ian Kelly, Mike Wright, Chad Dixon, Stephan
Wilms, Jack Klein, Kaz
List Price: $49.99
1392 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 2.20 x 9.10 x 7.34
Publisher: Sams; Bk&CD-Rom edition (July 7, 2000)
ISBN: 0672318962
 
B

ByteSurfer

Martin Ambuhl said:
C Programming Faqs: Frequently Asked Questions
by Steve Summit
List Price: $34.99
389 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 1.11 x 9.27 x 6.30
Publisher: Addison-Wesley Professional; 1st edition (November 1, 1995)
ISBN: 0201845199



C Unleashed
by Richard Heathfield, Lawrence Kirby, Mike Lee, Mathew Watson, Ben
Pfaff, Dann Corbit, Peter Seebach, Brett Fishburne, Scott Fluhrer,
Ian Woods, Sam Hobbs, Ian Kelly, Mike Wright, Chad Dixon, Stephan
Wilms, Jack Klein, Kaz
List Price: $49.99
1392 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 2.20 x 9.10 x 7.34
Publisher: Sams; Bk&CD-Rom edition (July 7, 2000)
ISBN: 0672318962


Thank you . Will go and look for it in Ebay
 
D

Dan Pop

In said:
How many of us regulars are in a position to judge what is a good
tutorial for beginners? Sure, we can say whether the text in the
book is *correct*. But can we really judge the quality of an
introductory text given all we know?

Yes, if we happened to read it as our first C book. In my case, it was
K&R1 and I enjoyed it enormously, without having to unlearn loads of
bullshit afterwards. It was, by far, the best programming language
tutorial book I have read in my career.

Dan
 
E

Eric Sosman

Ben said:
How many of us regulars are in a position to judge what is a good
tutorial for beginners? Sure, we can say whether the text in the
book is *correct*. But can we really judge the quality of an
introductory text given all we know?

Some of us "regulars" actually had to learn C at some
point instead of being born with it implanted in our genes.
When I was a beginner I found "The C Programming Language"
by Kernighan and Ritchie an excellent tutorial: concise,
well laid-out, and to the point. The book did not appear
to be a good introduction to the craft of programming, but
was entirely adequate as an introduction to C for someone
with prior experience of other programming languages.

The book was re-issued in a second edition some fifteen
years ago. I've never read the updated version, but if it's
anything like as good as the original it should serve
admirably.
 
P

Paul

I think of coming out with the opinion of writing a book from
Programmer was a nice thing to do.. Was it a e-book or it just a book
that we can buy in the stores? How bout getting into FAQ books first
then only thinking of implement the book of full version one ... the
best was the book compile of alogarithm and problem solving to enhance
and to challenge the brain of the reader. think that will be more
efficient. rather than "lame" introduction to C programming and the
"Hello World" coding.

Althought, that i never even saw how was the book of "C unleashed",
But this was my suggestion.

Please do tell me how to get the book .. Prefer "electronic" copy.

Regard,
ByteSurfer

thanks for your support, infact I was disappointed by looking at those
posts refering C Unleashed. I have been through that book and I still
feel paricipants in this group can still can come up with an or
another excellent.

The notion is come up with an electronic version, a free download.
just in the way of Bruce Eckel. Print will also be availble to buy.

-Book will be entirely based on discussions in this groups, all the
articles will be posted and discussed before arriving at a final
version. Earlier discussion when ever available will also be
considered.
-Several people can write chapter/articles on same topic, best one or
gist of all after discussion, will be selected to go into final
version.
-The selection may be by majority, but I believe there'll be a natural
winner.

Approach would be some thing like this.
Step 01-Topics/Chapters will be identified as first step.
Step 02-Sub topics
Step 03-Participants can post their content on topic and or sub
topics.
Step 04-Subsequent discussions may bring up final version.
Step 05-The book in pdf format will be made available as free
download.

Major contributor is considered as author for the topic/sub topic and
all those people who contributed will also be mentioned.

Ideas and approach or open for discussion, I request the visitors to
this group share their thoughts and time :).

tia.
-Paul.
 
A

Alan Balmer

[snips]

The (main) point of a book like "C Unleashed" is not to be a C
tutorial, but to provide some insights from the experience of its
authors as C programmers.

Perhaps, then, what we need *is* a decent tutorial. We've already got
excellent references - but how many actually usable books are there that
start you off with "Hello world" and work on up?
Kernighan and Ritchie - "The C Programming Language" does exactly
that.
 
D

Default User

Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:

What, creating tutorials should be left to those who don't know the
subject?

That seems to be the prevailing method for web tutorials.




Brian Rodenborn
 
C

CBFalconer

Dan said:
.... snip ...

Yes, if we happened to read it as our first C book. In my case, it
was K&R1 and I enjoyed it enormously, without having to unlearn
loads of bullshit afterwards. It was, by far, the best programming
language tutorial book I have read in my career.

Yes, that and K&R2 have much to do with the popularity of C. The
closest equivalent I know of in another language is Peter Grogonos
"Programming in Pascal", which was harmed by Borlands failure to
properly implement the language. I would love to find an equally
lucid exposition of Ada (which I am going to get around to Real
Soon Now).
 
D

Dave Vandervies

Ben Pfaff wrote:

Some of us "regulars" actually had to learn C at some
point instead of being born with it implanted in our genes.
When I was a beginner I found "The C Programming Language"
by Kernighan and Ritchie an excellent tutorial: concise,
well laid-out, and to the point. The book did not appear
to be a good introduction to the craft of programming,

I could be misremembering, but I believe they explicitly stated that it
wasn't intended to be.
but
was entirely adequate as an introduction to C for someone
with prior experience of other programming languages.

The book was re-issued in a second edition some fifteen
years ago. I've never read the updated version, but if it's
anything like as good as the original it should serve
admirably.

I had the same experience with the second edition as you did with
the first.


dave
 
N

name

CBFalconer said:
Yes, that and K&R2 have much to do with the popularity of C.
[snip]

I've heard it said that K&R(2) is considered a definitive example of
technical writing. Probably has a lot to do with why it's popular, I would
think.
Do you think there will ever be a third edition of that work?

Ritchie says not, AFAIK.
 
J

Joe Wright

CBFalconer said:
newby2c said:
Yes, that and K&R2 have much to do with the popularity of C.

[snip]

Do you think there will ever be a third edition of that work?


Kernighan has explicitly said no.

I wonder why K & R wouldn't write another book. Too hard? Not. Maybe
there's not enough money in it. How many copies of K&R3 might be
sold? How much would the authors presumably make? What are they
doing now? Both working at Bell Labs (Lucent)? What have either of
them done lately to stay famous?
 
N

newby2c

Joe Wright said:
I wonder why K & R wouldn't write another book. Too hard? Not. Maybe
there's not enough money in it. How many copies of K&R3 might be
sold? How much would the authors presumably make? What are they
doing now? Both working at Bell Labs (Lucent)? What have either of
them done lately to stay famous?

It could be that they feel that it is still pertinent as it is and that one
could always find out about the changes made since it was written.
Personally, I think many copies of K&R3 would be sold.

newby2c
 
M

Malcolm

Paul said:
thanks for your support, infact I was disappointed by looking at those
posts refering C Unleashed. I have been through that book and I still
feel paricipants in this group can still can come up with an or
another excellent.
I don't think there is much point redoing "C Unleashed". The book made it
into print, which was a considerable achievement, but wasn't financially
very successful. In other words, it wasn't such a disaster as to demand
doing again, but not such a success as to demand a sequel.
The notion is come up with an electronic version, a free download.
just in the way of Bruce Eckel. Print will also be availble to buy.
The Internet is changing publishing. The problem is that you will probably
have to put publishing costs upfront if an electronic version is avialbale
for free, because most publishers won't want to risk capital on a book that
is already available.
-Book will be entirely based on discussions in this groups, all the
articles will be posted and discussed before arriving at a final
version. Earlier discussion when ever available will also be
considered.
-Several people can write chapter/articles on same topic, best one or
gist of all after discussion, will be selected to go into final
version.
Terrible idea. The rejected authors will feel resentful and start trying to
sabatage the project.
-The selection may be by majority, but I believe there'll be a natural
winner.

Approach would be some thing like this.
Step 01-Topics/Chapters will be identified as first step.
Step 02-Sub topics
Step 03-Participants can post their content on topic and or sub
topics.
Step 04-Subsequent discussions may bring up final version.
Step 05-The book in pdf format will be made available as free
download.

Major contributor is considered as author for the topic/sub topic and
all those people who contributed will also be mentioned.

Ideas and approach or open for discussion, I request the visitors to
this group share their thoughts and time :).
I think you need to read C Unleashed, and the FAQ, which is avialable in
print, and then think what you can do which is C-related, but different from
these.

A few ideas:

"A second book of C". There are any number of C primers on the market, and
quite a bit of advanced technical literature, but there really isn't
anything for the person who has worked through a C primer, knows the basics,
and then wants to move on. This might be a little too close to "C
unleashed".

"Structured programming versus OOP". A discussion of the merits of
structured versus OO approaches, and when to use each. It won't be an
anti-C++ book, since we are too mature for that, but it will defend the
notion that it many circustances straight C is the language to prefer.

"C99 - death of a standard". Write an expose of the C99 debacle, and how
ANSI got into the situation of writing a standard which no-one has
implemented. Quite a hard book to write, since it will demand journalistic
as well as technical skills, but we might well have somebody who could do it
here.
 

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