Good Sites - who's got some examples?

  • Thread starter Nicolai P. Zwar
  • Start date
W

Whitecrest

Exactly. Just our difference stems from the fact that you believe
(erroneously) that using Flash entices people to use the site. It is
certain that by making your information available to 100% of the
potential audience is far better than 60%, 70%, 80% or even 90%.

You fail to realize that there is a HUGE audience out there that prefer
interactive fun sites. Our sites are made to please these people. If
they do not want the glitz, then they can go elsewhere, because I am
marketing to the glitz.
Well, did you grok the importance of standards-compliance?

A flash page can be fully standards compliant. That is what the
"<object>" tag is for.
 
W

Whitecrest

Which includes the user being able to adjust the text size as needed to
make that content readable. This is a serious deficiency of Flash.

Actually you can easily allow the user to change the size of the text.
You can also make all the text readable via a reader.
 
I

Isofarro

Toby said:
Dylan said:
Isofarro said:
About as legitimate as to what their favourite HTTP response code is.

Why, 200, of course! ;-)

You can't be serious! 201 Created is far superior! ;-)

I tend to think that 402 is the best[1], especially if it works in my
favour :eek:)

I've always had a soft spot for 204. One has to admire its pointlessness.

Not quite so pointless. 204 just means that there is no content to return
and the useragent is to say on the current resource. So its an
implementation of UDP over TCP/IP - still has its uses as an output only
form. There are some possibilities of remote simple but voluminous
data-entry forms that would do well when the recipient sends back 204.

Not a good response code when it comes to usability (lack of feedback), but
for specialist applications it has its uses.

Considering the low level of quality of web design websites I can't help
thinking that 417 is vastly underused (in its literal sense ;-).
 
K

kchayka

Whitecrest said:
Silly boy, I can do all of those things and more. You really don't know
what flash can and can not do, do you?

Please point out a site with Flash content where I can adjust the text
size to my liking just like I can with html, using either IE or mozilla.
And don't tell me to use Flash's zoom feature because it is grossly
inadequate, to the point of being useless.
 
K

Kris

If you truly believe this, then I would never want you near
a web site that I am involved with. Design is a critical
element for most people who want a site built and this is
expressed in the basic request to "Design me a web site."

Most people have the design aspect as one of the most
important things they consider when requesting that a
site be built.

i agree, they dont call it web DESIGN for nothing...[/QUOTE]

What is it with people who think of design as 'graphical design' all the
time.
 
W

Whitecrest

Please point out a site with Flash content where I can adjust the text
size to my liking just like I can with html, using either IE or mozilla.
And don't tell me to use Flash's zoom feature because it is grossly
inadequate, to the point of being useless.

See you already have decided that anything I offer is inadequate. All I
can say is that companies love this stuff, and customers love this
stuff. Sorry you don't.
 
W

Whitecrest

What is it with people who think of design as 'graphical design' all the
time.

I agree, design encompasses may parts of web development. The Graphical
part being only one of them.
 
T

Toby A Inkster

Isofarro said:
Considering the low level of quality of web design websites I can't help
thinking that 417 is vastly underused (in its literal sense ;-).

Or 406. :)
 
E

EightNineThree

Whitecrest said:
Or they would have lost his sale because he was bored with the site. It
goes both ways.

Do you have *any* statistics for e-commerce incomes of Flash based websites?
You love going on about how great Flash is, but I have never seen one
usability study or e-commerce reference that recommends using Flash.
If you don't have a source to cite for the things you say, maybe you should
stop lying to the group.

--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
 
E

EightNineThree

Whitecrest said:
Silly boy, I can do all of those things and more. You really don't know
what flash can and can not do, do you?

Well, lets see it then.
Give me a link to one of your "accessible Flash" site and I'll run it
through JAWS


--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
 
E

EightNineThree

Whitecrest said:
See you already have decided that anything I offer is inadequate. All I
can say is that companies love this stuff, and customers love this
stuff. Sorry you don't.

You make claims, but supply no proof.
Supply some proof.


--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
 
E

EightNineThree

Whitecrest said:
You fail to realize that there is a HUGE audience out there that prefer
interactive fun sites.

Cite sources.


--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
 
P

Paul Goodwin

EightNineThree said:
Cite sources.

Can you cite sources that show a *huge* audience that does _not_ prefer
"interactive fun sites"?
It would seem to be self-evident that there's plenty of people surfing for
info *and* entertainment, it's not just one or the other.
Flash has it's place & it's uses, many music group sites use it to present
their music & imagery in a way best suited to the MTV crowd they're
targeting. Many music fans don't want static, text only sites, they're
boring & don't reflect the high-energy, rock & roll *entertainment*
qualities the group wants to put across.
http://www.rush.com is, except for the first page, entirely done in Flash, &
it's a hell of an entertaining & informative site, reflecting the band &
it's long history quite well, one can get lost in there for hours listening
& watching & *interacting*. Of course if you don't have flash or have it
disabled the point is moot, but again, it's a users *choice* to do so.
Flash isn't going to go away, if anything it's going to become more & more a
part of the net as more people switch to broadband, because there's things
you can do with it that you simply cannot do in html, but as I said up
there, it has it's place and it's uses. The challenge is in using it well
and appropriately, if it's used at all.
For people to be all snobby about it seems silly to me, there's plenty of
room for html *and* flash designers, and combinations thereof.
 
E

EightNineThree

Paul Goodwin said:
Can you cite sources that show a *huge* audience that does _not_ prefer
"interactive fun sites"?

Burden of proof:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html

It would seem to be self-evident that there's plenty of people surfing for
info *and* entertainment, it's not just one or the other.

My concentration on the web is for making money, not entertainment.
"Making money" is defined, IMO, as "increasing income" and "decreasing
expenses".

"Whitecrest" will pipe in with "well, that's who we cater to", but has yet
to cite one resource that a Flash-based website is a revenue stream

At the core of web-related revenue is how usable the website itself is.

How important is the look 'n' feel of your website?
http://www.gerrymcgovern.com/nt/2002/nt_2002_12_16_look.htm

Flash and Web-based applications.
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20021125.html

Flash: 99% Bad

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html

Did Poor Usability Kill E-Commerce?

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20010819.html

Attention Macromedia: I Will not be Your Scapegoat
http://www.flazoom.com/news/scapegoat_11012000.shtml


To Flash or not to Flash?
http://www.zdnet.com.au/builder/webdesign/multimedia/story/0,2000040398,20268294,00.htm


How Flash Unseated Fireproof Digital
http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/~french/hwk/is204/midterm-paper.html

Flash vs. HTML - A Usability Test
http://www.dack.com/web/flashVhtml/


Why Flash is Bad
http://www.davidplant.net/design/technology/flash.htm



--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
 
W

Whitecrest

Do you have *any* statistics for e-commerce incomes of Flash based websites?
You love going on about how great Flash is, but I have never seen one
usability study or e-commerce reference that recommends using Flash.
If you don't have a source to cite for the things you say, maybe you should
stop lying to the group.

http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/survey/whitepaper_jul03.pdf

But you won't like what it says so you will dismiss it.
 
E

EightNineThree

Whitecrest said:

Perhaps you have a reading comprehension problem.
Read my post again:
"Do you have *any* statistics for e-commerce incomes of Flash based
websites?"

Simple question. Only requires a "Yes" or "No" answer.


--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
 
W

Whitecrest

My concentration on the web is for making money, not entertainment.

The two are not mutually exclusive you know.
"Making money" is defined, IMO, as "increasing income" and "decreasing
expenses".

"Whitecrest" will pipe in with "well, that's who we cater to", but has yet
to cite one resource that a Flash-based website is a revenue stream

I have shown many different ones, you just fail to admit it. Cartoon
Channel is one.
At the core of web-related revenue is how usable the website itself is.

And for for the general population that use the default son their
computer, it is completely usable.
How important is the look 'n' feel of your website?
http://www.gerrymcgovern.com/nt/2002/nt_2002_12_16_look.htm

(actually supports design)

I see your biased articles and raise you
http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/
 
E

EightNineThree

Whitecrest said:
Mind the wrapping:
http://dynamic.macromedia.com/bin/MM/showcase/scripts/showcase_cs_listin
g_by_query.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@2127113131.1065570519
@@@@&BV_EngineID=hadcihgikggjbedcgemcgcfk.0&product=Flash

Maybe you didn't notice, but almost none of those sites use Flash as their
primary website. (at least not the big ones)
Most of those examples were for multimedia presentations and embedded media
for supplemental website content - which nobody is arguing against.


--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
 

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