R
red floyd
Rob said:
Hence the need for the MC68010.
Hence the need for the MC68010.
J
John W. Kennedy
Anne said:
Yes. A vastly inferior design was used, which ended up killing seven
astronauts, because Orrin Hatch had to be appeased with boodle for Utah.
--
John W. Kennedy
"Give up vows and dogmas, and fixed things, and you may grow like That.
....you may come to think a blow bad, because it hurts, and not because
it humiliates. You may come to think murder wrong, because it is
violent, and not because it is unjust."
-- G. K. Chesterton. "The Ball and the Cross"
A
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
SM Ryan said:
was also responsible for adeventure inside the company ... recent
pst in a.o.m
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#38 Adventure
slight reference to the internal network in above
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtnetwork.html#internalnet
one of the arguments we used in proposed security sweeps to find all
copies ... was that a public entertainment area would be less of a
problem than attempting to outright & totally outlaw such activities.
for one thing a single (trusted?) entertainment area would use less
disk space than lots of disguised (to evade security sweep) individual
copies.
random past adventure threads
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#56 Earliest memories of "Adventure" & "Trek"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#169 Crowther (pre-Woods) "Colossal Cave"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#72 Microsoft boss warns breakup could worsen virus problem
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#33 Adventure Games (Was: Navy orders supercomputer)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#14 adventure ... nearly 20 years
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#17 3270 protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#44 Call for folklore - was Re: So it's cyclical.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#46 Any DEC 340 Display System Doco ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#69 IBM system 370
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#40 The real history of computer architecture: the short form
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#34 Playing games in mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#2 Text Adventures (which computer was first?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#7 Text Adventures (which computer was first?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#49 Adventure game (was
L/? History (was Hercules))http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#57 Adventure game (was
L/? History (was Hercules))
S
Stimpy
SM said:
The Faulty-Minder
S
Stimpy
There are many streets and paths in the UK still in everyday use where this
is the case!
A
Alan Balmer
The first disaster was due to (possibly inferior) gaskets and inferior
judgment on launch day. The second was falling foam, and inferior
realization of the gravity of the problem. I'm not clear on what
either had to do with Utah.
A
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Alan Balmer said:
at the time of the 1st disaster ... the claim was that the utah bid
was the only solution that required manufactoring the boosters in
sections for transportion and the subsequent re-assembly in florida
with gaskets. the assertion was that none of the other solutions could
have had a failure because of gaskets ... because they didn't have
gaskets (having been manufactored as a single unit).
so the failure cause scenario went (compared to solutions that didn't
require gaskets and manufactoring in sections)
disaster because of inferior(?) gaskets
inferior(?) gaskets because of gaskets
gaskets because of transportion sectioning requirement
transportation sectioning requirement because the sections
were manufactored in utah
P
Paul Repacholi
They are not DOS commands, thay are CPM commands that just happened
to report for duty in redmondia.
All of them where in the 4.x monitir I used. many of the 427 source file
are on Tim's site, so you can have a look in COMTAB and see.
--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.
to report for duty in redmondia.
All of them where in the 4.x monitir I used. many of the 427 source file
are on Tim's site, so you can have a look in COMTAB and see.
--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.
D
David Schwartz
These are the proximate causes. However, had almost anything been done
differently, these precise accidents would not have occured the way they
did. This provides the rhetorical oppurtunity to blame the disasters on any
particular decision one does not like, regardless of how remote its
connection to the actual failures.
DS
A
Alan Balmer
No, because they were *not* manufactured on the launch pad.
Transportation would be required from any other place - in Utah or
not.
Even if they were manufactured on the launch pad, there would be more
than one piece.
S
SM Ryan
# > It's nice to know people still have time to work on really important things.
#
# was also responsible for adeventure inside the company ... recent
# pst in a.o.m
# http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#38 Adventure
Is there a javascript version of Advent? I've been looking for a game to sneak into
software I've been working on. I can try to do little animated gifs.
#
# was also responsible for adeventure inside the company ... recent
# pst in a.o.m
# http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#38 Adventure
Is there a javascript version of Advent? I've been looking for a game to sneak into
software I've been working on. I can try to do little animated gifs.
A
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Alan Balmer said:
as mentioned in the earlier post ... supposedly all other competing
bids were all sites on various shores that all allowed barging of
single, completed, manufactored unit to florida w/o sectioning and
no other designs had gaskets.
supposedly utah was the *only* bid that required sectioning to meet
various overland transportation requirement.
previous post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#58
earlier reply to your comment about ... "shuttle boosters are 3.7m
diameter" ... with comment about the alternative single unit
assemblers being barged to florida.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#54
as repeatedly posted ... as far as i know from all the stuff from the
period ... the comments were that the utah design was the *only*
design that had to be built in sections (because of transportation
issues) and re-assembled in florida and the only design that involved
such gaskets. all other designs were built on various shores in single
pieces and would be barged as single piece to florida and no gaskets
were involved (because they were manufactored in single pieces and
barged to florida in whole pieces).
the difference between barging and train ... was that there are
significantly less length, width, height, dimensional restrictions on
barged items compared to dimensional restrictions on overland train
..... because of bridges, tunnels, curves, clearances from adjacent
traffic, clearances involving any sort of structures near tracks.
i was under the impression that barging was fairly straight forward
from east coast, gulf coast, many major rivers, etc. i would guess
that anyplace that you could get a ship that was 160' or larger
.... you could transport a barged assembly.
in fact, a shipyard that was accostomed to building a ship in a single
assemble (w/o needing gaskets to hold it together) could probably also
build a single assembly booster rocket ... and barge it to florida.
i'm not sure about how to catalog all the possible sites &/or
shipyards that could build single section unit (things like single
section ships that are build in single section w/o gaskets to hold the
different sections together) ... some quicky google about ports
http://www.aapadirectory.com/cgi-bin/showportprofile.cgi?id=3709®ion=US
turns up corpus cristi ... they handle ships built in single sections
(w/o gaskets to hold them together) up to 1000 ft long and 45 ft
depth. they also mention some docks that are barge use only that only
handl 260 ft length and 16 ft depth (course there probably isn't much
of height or width restriction with overhanging adjacent structures).
A
Alan Balmer
Your earlier post mentioned a unattributed "claim" and unattributed
"assertions", and extrapolated from there. I didn't take it as gospel.
Especially since a space shuttle is a rather complex object, and a
blithe assertion that it could be built as a "single unit" seems a bit
far-fetched.
I'm not a fan of Mr Hatch, but blaming him for the shuttle disaster(s)
is somewhat over the top. Why not blame President Bush? That's the
popular thing nowadays.
A
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Alan Balmer said:
i have vague recollection of a picture of saturn v 1st stage being
barged to florida ... having been built someplace in a single assemble
.... and not requiring re-assemble in florida with gaskets.
can you imagine it being built in sections that required meeting
overland train transportion restrictions? ... not only would it have
to be section in 40ft long pieces .... but probably each 40ft section
would have to be cut into slivers since it would otherwise have too
big/wide .... and then assembled with huge amounts of gaskets in
florida ... not only around the circumference but huge amount of
gaskets up and down its length.
lets see what search engine comes up with for saturn v 1st stage
reference ... aha ... it turns out that wikipedia is your friend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V#Stages
fist stage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-IC
is 138ft ... about the same length as the assembled shuttle booster
rocket ... but 33ft in diameter. can you imagine the saturn v first
stage being built someplace in 40ft sections .... as well as down
its length 40ft long section down the length ... sort of like a pie
.... say 8ths ... what is the straight line between the end points for
1/8th arc of a 33ft diamter circle ...
the circumference is a little over 103ft so 1/8th of that is about
13ft arc ... which would make the straight line for the end-points of
the arc about 12ft .... which might just about fit overland train
transportion restrictions. so saturn v first stage could be
manufactored in 32 sections ... transported to florida by train and
re-assembled with gaskets.
saturn v second stage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-II
doesn't give the dimensions ... picture seems to imply about the same
circumference but not as long.
saturn v third stage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-IVB
J
John W. Kennedy
Alan said:
There should never have been any O-rings in the first place. Three
better designs were offered, but NASA was ordered by the Nixon White
House to pick Thiokol's design, a distant fourth, for political reasons.
The decision to launch wasn't "inferior judgment", it was pure damned
politics, too.
The Challenger seven were just as good as murdered.
--
John W. Kennedy
"But now is a new thing which is very old--
that the rich make themselves richer and not poorer,
which is the true Gospel, for the poor's sake."
-- Charles Williams. "Judgement at Chelmsford"
J
John W. Kennedy
Alan said:
The gaskets were /within/ the solid rocket boosters, which should have
been designed in one piece, and could have been designed in one piece,
if it were not for political corruption.
A
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Alan Balmer said:
i never made any referrence to people or personalities ... somebody
else did.
i just repeated the claims after the disaster about majority of the
other launch things were single section and barged to the launch site
(as well as the alternative booster proposals).
the issue of the gaskets is pretty well established as being required
for the sectional manufactoring ... predicated on the dimensional
restrictions on overland train transportation ... that was perceived
to have been a pretty unique ... when other major deliverables have
been built in single section and barged to launch site.
from a purely fucntional standpoint to somebody's leap with regard to
personabilities ... is somebody else's doing.
i would say that any argument about the personality issues
.... shouldn't creap into purely straight forward issue about whether
all manufactoring assemblies require sectioning because of
transportation restrictions. lots of assemblies are made in single
sections and barged to florida.
i can see taking issue with somebody (else) over their possible
personality assertions ... but that shouldn't also result in comments
about whether sectioning is required for all possible modes of
transportation.
J
Joe Pfeiffer
Alan Balmer said:
IIRC (always risky), the use of a segmented booster calling for
o-rings in the first place came from the need to transport the
boosters from Utah.
J
John Thingstad
Norton Trikol alto buildt the Titan solid rocket booster along
simular lines. I has a resonably good record.
A extra gasket was added since it was supposed to be used
for human flight. Fron a engeneering stanpoint I can't see how you
are supposed to mold solid rocket fuel fot the booster in one piece.
But then I am not a rocket scientist.
Anyhow space flight is a riscy endevor. If it wasn't the booster then it
would have been something else. One in every 50 or so launces will fail.
Saying it was as good as murder is prepostrious.
The peaple who launced knew the riscs. Sitting attom of 10000 liters of
fuel undergoing a controlled explosion will probaly never be entirely safe.
A
Alan Balmer
I don't really know what imagination has to do with the question. I
can imagine it being carved into 1277 pieces, but won't offer that as
a meaningful argument.
Here in Arizona, we recently had a transformer delivered. On a 800,000
pound, 280 foot long rig. By highway. No barges involved.
As for the reference to Hatch, that's exactly what the OP was writing
about.
I apologize for not having the time to read and research your comments
properly, so if it seems that I'm just picking on your logic, or lack
thereof, you are correct.