J
Jedrin
If money was the only motivating factor wouldn't we all want to be
wall street bankers instead ?
wall street bankers instead ?
J
Jorgen Grahn
I find it a bit odd that none of the questions had anything to do with
programming, or even technology or creative work in general. They
could have applied equally well to any kind of project-oriented work.
/Jorgen
R
Roedy Green
That may be a motivator for taking a job, but I suspect is fairly far
down the list for leaving a job.
Leaving motivations might include:
personality conflict
boredom
too much pressure
Personally, the opportunity to do something I had never done before
was always the top priority. Employers usually want people who have
extensive specific experience.
In hiring, my main interest was loyalty. Employees don't get really
useful until after the first year. I don't expect them to hit the
ground running. I anticipate investing considerable effort in training
them. I looked for reasons why they would likely want to stay.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
You can’t have great software without a great team, and most software teams behave like dysfunctional families.
~ Jim McCarthy
H
Hillbilly
Which is why I rarely participate as they are ALWAYS FUBAR and BIASED.
N
Nick Keighley
J
James Kanze
Yes and no. Obviously, money plays a role---some of us have
expensive habits, like eating regularly, that have to be paid
for. But it has its limits, and I've rarely seen money alone
motivate the best performance (in anything).
J
James Kanze
Amongst other things. Two of the most important motivaters are
peer approval and admiration, and personal satisfaction with the
results.
J
James Kanze
[...]
I'm not sure if the word "professional" has the same conotations
in English as it does in French, but from the French meaning, I
don't think you can be truely a "professional" if you're only in
it for the money. "Professional" implies being paid for what
you do, but it also implies a certain degree of personal
standards with regards to quality and such---a "professional"
will take pride in his work.
I'm not sure if the word "professional" has the same conotations
in English as it does in French, but from the French meaning, I
don't think you can be truely a "professional" if you're only in
it for the money. "Professional" implies being paid for what
you do, but it also implies a certain degree of personal
standards with regards to quality and such---a "professional"
will take pride in his work.
A
Alf P. Steinbach
* James Kanze:
I agree.
But strangely, one thing that motivates me is apparent peer disapproval. For in
many social environments (last week or so there was a damning report about this
kind of environment at the University of Oslo, happily I'm not there) the art of
put-down'ing and dissing is key to personal success. When someone else does
something really good then put-down'ing becomes necessary and the default
response. Thus, when I get critique that has more emotional impact than
technical I concentrate on the technical points. Then, interpreting those more
technical points in a kind of inverse-picture way, I know what's good.
Of course, that's part of the personal satisfaction motivation, but I think it's
interesting that personal satisfaction, knowing that you've created something
good, in some/many environments can be directly incompatible with peer approval.
And for me personal satisfaction weights more.
Peer approval would in most cases just say that I'm conforming, which is not
something that I'd be proud of; it's something I strive to avoid. But in some
cases approval is really nice. E.g., a few times you've stated that I'm pretty
good, or words to that effect, which coming from someone that one respects is
uplifting in a way; likewise, once, many years ago, I had a dispute with one
very well-known C++ expert over in clc++m and wrote some things that I really
shouldn't have, the mod apologized for accepting the article by saying that he
didn't read closely because it was two "C++ experts" discussing things, and that
helped much, otherwise I might have stopped posting...
Cheers,
- Alf
I agree.
But strangely, one thing that motivates me is apparent peer disapproval. For in
many social environments (last week or so there was a damning report about this
kind of environment at the University of Oslo, happily I'm not there) the art of
put-down'ing and dissing is key to personal success. When someone else does
something really good then put-down'ing becomes necessary and the default
response. Thus, when I get critique that has more emotional impact than
technical I concentrate on the technical points. Then, interpreting those more
technical points in a kind of inverse-picture way, I know what's good.
Of course, that's part of the personal satisfaction motivation, but I think it's
interesting that personal satisfaction, knowing that you've created something
good, in some/many environments can be directly incompatible with peer approval.
And for me personal satisfaction weights more.
Peer approval would in most cases just say that I'm conforming, which is not
something that I'd be proud of; it's something I strive to avoid. But in some
cases approval is really nice. E.g., a few times you've stated that I'm pretty
good, or words to that effect, which coming from someone that one respects is
uplifting in a way; likewise, once, many years ago, I had a dispute with one
very well-known C++ expert over in clc++m and wrote some things that I really
shouldn't have, the mod apologized for accepting the article by saying that he
didn't read closely because it was two "C++ experts" discussing things, and that
helped much, otherwise I might have stopped posting...
Cheers,
- Alf
D
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
MarkusSchaber said:
Depends.
Right now I am primarily motivated by money, or at least the lack of it.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
M
MarkusSchaber
Hi, Dirk,
I won't dispute that money is a motivator, but it is not the most
efficient motivator. The more money you pay, the more you will attract
those developers which are purely after the money, and not the really
good ones. For the latter ones, a certain level on the paycheck is
enough to give attention to fun, excitement, atmosphere and such
factors.
I won't dispute that money is a motivator, but it is not the most
efficient motivator. The more money you pay, the more you will attract
those developers which are purely after the money, and not the really
good ones. For the latter ones, a certain level on the paycheck is
enough to give attention to fun, excitement, atmosphere and such
factors.
D
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
MarkusSchaber said:
I once joked with an employer that if he paid me twice as much I would
only have to work half as long
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
L
Lew
I once joked with an employer that if he paid me twice as much I would
only have to work half as long
Given that nearly nobody gives a perfect working environment, or even close,
money is the primary distinguisher. As a contract worker, I've seen a few
dozen IT workplaces. The grass is never greener. Offer me twice as much
compensation as the other potential employer and my talents are yours to exploit.
It's not that money is the motivator. The question is leading and extremely
ill cast. I don't depend on anyone else for my motivation. Money is the
decider; it decides whether and where I work. It doesn't determine how.
To get meaningful answers, the survey would have to ask meaningful questions.
M
Malcolm McLean
Strictly a "professional" is someone who is a member of a professional
body which regulates itself and has the right to control entry to the
profession. For instnace I can't simply buy scalpels and antiseptic
and set myself up as a brain surgeon - I have to go throguh the
British Medical Association before they'll let me chop people up. the
same is true for lawyers, accountants, and some other more obscure
niches.
Most people aren't professionals, and the word has become misused to
mean 'skilled workers with high standards'. Bascially employers want
the advantages of professional status without conferring on their
employees the control that is the natural concomitant.
Computer programmers are rarely professionals in the true sense, but
ususally professional in the bastardised sense of the term.
L
Larz
I have a pretty good idea on this, I may not be typical.
I basically was never convinced that work of any sort could be fun up
to my early 20's. No one ever convinced me of that or ever thought it
important enough to ever bring up the issue of whether work should be
enjoyable or not.
I was a paper boy, dishwasher, worked on farms, retail stores etc. I
always have enjoyed being a musician I would say, but even that can be
stifling depending on the situation. At one point in 1983 or so I
decided I needed a career and took a COBOL class which to my surprise
I found software interesting. After nearly flunking out of high
school, I got a degree in CS and made the honor roll and did very
well. When i started my career as a programmer, I discovered that
managers, co workers and the business world at times can take alot of
the fun out of it. On the other hand, this led me to discover
meditation and the spiritual side of life as the stress and
frustration inspired me to take up meditating on biblical psalms,
buddhist meditation and a few yogi masters ..
I basically was never convinced that work of any sort could be fun up
to my early 20's. No one ever convinced me of that or ever thought it
important enough to ever bring up the issue of whether work should be
enjoyable or not.
I was a paper boy, dishwasher, worked on farms, retail stores etc. I
always have enjoyed being a musician I would say, but even that can be
stifling depending on the situation. At one point in 1983 or so I
decided I needed a career and took a COBOL class which to my surprise
I found software interesting. After nearly flunking out of high
school, I got a degree in CS and made the honor roll and did very
well. When i started my career as a programmer, I discovered that
managers, co workers and the business world at times can take alot of
the fun out of it. On the other hand, this led me to discover
meditation and the spiritual side of life as the stress and
frustration inspired me to take up meditating on biblical psalms,
buddhist meditation and a few yogi masters ..
T
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
Malcolm said:
Your notion of "computer programmer" is a bit outdated to say the least.
This thread was about "software professionals".
You might also want to update other parts of your knowledge:
,-<http://www.britannica.com/bps/dictionary?query=professional&header_go=>
|
| Main Entry: ¹pro·fes·sion·al
| Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\
| Function: adjective
| Date: 1606
|
| 1 a: of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession[1]
| b: engaged in one of the learned professions
| c (1): characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical
| standards of a profession
| (2): exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally
| businesslike manner in the workplace
|
| 2 a: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of
| endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a ∼ golfer>
| b: having a particular profession as a permanent career
| <a ∼ soldier>
| c: engaged in by persons receiving financial return <∼ football>
|
| 3: following a line of conduct as though it were a profession
| <a ∼ patriot>
| — pro·fess·ion·ally adverb
|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Main Entry: ²professional
| Function: noun
| Date: 1811
|
| one that is professional; especially: one that engages in a pursuit or
| activity professionally
[1]
| Main Entry
ro·fes·sion| Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfe-shən\
| Function: noun
| Etymology: Middle English professioun, from Anglo-French profession,
| from Late Latin & Latin; Late Latin profession-, professio,
| from Latin, public declaration, from profitēri
| Date: 13th century
|
| 1: the act of taking the vows of a religious community
| 2: an act of openly declaring or publicly claiming a belief, faith,
| or opinion : protestation
| 3: an avowed religious faith
| 4 a: a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and
| intensive academic preparation
| b: a principal calling, vocation, or employmentc: the whole body
| of persons engaged in a calling
So much for "bastardised".
F'up2 poster
PointedEars
T
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
Malcolm said:
Your notion of "computer programmer" is a bit outdated to say the least.
This thread was about "software professionals".
You might also want to update other parts of your knowledge:
,-<http://www.britannica.com/bps/dictionary?query=professional&header_go=>
|
| Main Entry: ¹pro·fes·sion·al
| Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\
| Function: adjective
| Date: 1606
|
| 1 a: of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession[1]
| b: engaged in one of the learned professions
| c (1): characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical
| standards of a profession
| (2): exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally
| businesslike manner in the workplace
|
| 2 a: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of
| endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a ∼ golfer>
| b: having a particular profession as a permanent career
| <a ∼ soldier>
| c: engaged in by persons receiving financial return <∼ football>
|
| 3: following a line of conduct as though it were a profession
| <a ∼ patriot>
| — pro·fess·ion·ally adverb
|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Main Entry: ²professional
| Function: noun
| Date: 1811
|
| one that is professional; especially: one that engages in a pursuit or
| activity professionally
[1]
| Main Entry
ro·fes·sion| Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfe-shən\
| Function: noun
| Etymology: Middle English professioun, from Anglo-French profession,
| from Late Latin & Latin; Late Latin profession-, professio,
| from Latin, public declaration, from profitēri
| Date: 13th century
|
| 1: the act of taking the vows of a religious community
| 2: an act of openly declaring or publicly claiming a belief, faith,
| or opinion : protestation
| 3: an avowed religious faith
| 4 a: a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and
| intensive academic preparation
| b: a principal calling, vocation, or employment
| c: the whole body of persons engaged in a calling
So much for "bastardised".
F'up2 poster
PointedEars
L
Lew
Ivan said:
Oh, yeah - the twin evils of McCarthyism and Communism. Racism. Sexism. The
Cold War. Superpowers playing chess with smaller countries. Wars everywhere.
Dictators. Massive stockpiling of nuclear and chemical weapons. Rapine of
the planet. The birth of AIDS. Hideous fashions.
Totally awesome.
D
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Lew said:
Some places you go, however, you never want to return.
They are real tech sweatshop hellholes with everyone looking for a new
job. Last place like that I was at the boss said: "This project is
behind schedule and if it is not on time heads will roll. I am now off
on holiday". I suspect he returned to an empty office.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
I
Ian Collins
Malcolm said:
In some contexts maybe, but golf and cricket clubs had their
"professional" long before anyone thought of developing software. It
isn't the term "professional" that has been bastardised, it's "Engineer".