newbie question

[Istvan Albert]

the syntax of boo is indeed virtually identical to python.

All that boo does is borrows a few syntactical constructs
from python. Calling it virtually identical
is *very* misleading.

I've downloaded and tried it when you first made this claim
and it turned out that boo couldn't directly run even
the simplest python programs, on top of that execution
speed was slower than that of the corresponding python program.
I think this entitles me to be irked by your post above.

Istvan.

 

[Luis M. Gonzalez]

All that boo does is borrows a few syntactical constructs
from python. Calling it virtually identical
is *very* misleading.

That's right. I wouldn't say it is *virtually identical* because Boo is
not Python (and this was clearly stated in its web site). It is an
statically typed language while Python is dynamic, and it was designed
to run on the .NET framework.
However, it's syntax is *very* similar, and I'm sure that any Python
aficionado would be able to learn it in a few minutes.

I've downloaded and tried it when you first made this claim
and it turned out that boo couldn't directly run even
the simplest python programs

This is because Boo is not Python. It is very similar, but there are
some obvious differences.

speed was slower than that of the corresponding python program.
I think this entitles me to be irked by your post above.

You should consider that if you don't declare the types (as it is
supposed in any statically typed language) or if you don't understand
well how its type inference works, Boo would consider each variable as
type "object", therefore its execution speed would be similar to that
of a dynamic language.
I think that if you use Boo correctly, its performance would be as good
as any other .NET compliant language.

Anyway, Boo is still a work in progress and not ready for production
(although quite usable at its current state).

Finally, I want to say that although many people in this list may not
be interested in this language, I'm sure that there could be many
others that will find it very interesting.
(Especially those who are forced to work in a Microsoft centric
company).
In these cases, Boo is like programming in c# with a python-like
syntax.
As for the first ones, there's no reason to bash this project
gratuitelly. It is as important and "python related" as other projects
such as PyPy, Stackless, Prothon, etc...
I encourage everyone to give it a try, and if still you're not
convinced, well, you can ignore any thread that mentions it and go on
happily with your life...

regards,
Luis

 

[Terry Reedy]

As for the first ones, there's no reason to bash this project
gratuitelly.

[gratuitously] I agree with this...

It is as important and "python related" as other projects
such as PyPy, Stackless,

but I think this is silly. PyPy is an alternate implementation of Python,
not a different language. Stackless is a compiled extension, like many
others, that works with the standard implementation or maybe still a minor
modification thereof.

Prothon, etc...

This I again agree with. I understand that Prothon is also a *different*
though Python inspired language. Also that it is still under development.
I have no idea of which has diverged more or whether they have mostly gone
in the same or different directions (a possibly interesting topic for a
post). But neither are as 'Python related' as Python itself.

Terry J. Reedy

 

[Luis M. Gonzalez]

[gratuitously] I agree with this...

well, my english is bad. I know!

but I think this is silly. PyPy is an alternate implementation of Python,
not a different language. Stackless is a compiled extension, like many
others, that works with the standard implementation or maybe still a minor
modification thereof.

you're right, but what when I say "python related", I mean that it has
something or a lot in common with python, and as such, it could be of
interest to any python fan.
Why being extremists? Python is a programming language, a tool. It is
not a religion, is it? Programmers use different tools, and this could
be a very interesting one for someone who already knows python.

 

[Doug Holton]

Sadly your second post hasn't reached my news server, which is
quite flaky. Fortunately (checking Google Groups), I see it
added nothing of substance, as it merely points to the site again,
without addressing my comments about how syntactical similarity
or even identity doesn't justify the term "virtually identical",
which implies that in all respects one thing is essentially
identical to another.

I gave such a short answer because the way you framed your "questions"
and the context of your post made it clear you are a troll. Your reply
here was yet another troll. You are one of the reasons why so-called
"newbies" and others are being intimidated away from this list.
-Doug

 

[Doug Holton]

All that boo does is borrows a few syntactical constructs
from python. Calling it virtually identical
is *very* misleading.

The syntax is indeed virtually identical to python. You are yet another
person who has trolled before. See your obvious trolling reply here,
for example:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group...=thread&noheader=1&q=boo#doc_a750c109b8ee57c3

Do you have financial conflict of interest too like Fredrik? Or is it
just a psychological issue? I have no stake in python or any other
language changing or not changing. You guys need to accept change
rather than fear it.

 

[Doug Holton]

To actually answer your question, no, there is no standard for enums in
python. There are custom hacks for it that you can search for.

This is a good sugestion for Python 3.0, a.k.a. Python 3000:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/Python3.0

In the future you may be able to to this:

enum Color:
Red
Green
Blue

However, Python 3.0 is likely years away. If you want to know how to
run this code today, consult Fredrik Lundh.

 

[Hans Nowak]

The syntax is indeed virtually identical to python. You are yet another
person who has trolled before. See your obvious trolling reply here,
for example:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group...=thread&noheader=1&q=boo#doc_a750c109b8ee57c3


Do you have financial conflict of interest too like Fredrik? Or is it
just a psychological issue? I have no stake in python or any other
language changing or not changing. You guys need to accept change
rather than fear it.

Regardless of the merits of Boo, this is comp.lang.python, not
comp.lang.boo. The language may *look* like Python, but its inner
workings are nothing like Python, as several people have correctly
pointed out now. (Just like Java's syntax may look like C or C++ in
some areas, but the languages are nowhere near alike.) Pointing out the
difference is not trolling.

 

[Doug Holton]

Regardless of the merits of Boo, this is comp.lang.python, not
comp.lang.boo. The language may *look* like Python, but its inner
workings are nothing like Python, as several people have correctly
pointed out now. (Just like Java's syntax may look like C or C++ in
some areas, but the languages are nowhere near alike.) Pointing out the
difference is not trolling.

Let me say it again then, although I do not know why it threatens people
so much: the syntax of boo is indeed virtually identical to python's.
That is what I said and what is clear from the website.

I already stated that I will not mention boo again, to comply with
Fredrik's wishes and yours. I will refer to CPython, and CPython only.
But I will not be intimidated by the likes of Fredrik Lundh. Trollers
will be held accountable. If it continues at this pace, then I suggest
a weekly troll alert, to educate and prepare the so-called newbies for
the behavior that occurs on this list.

 

[Luis M. Gonzalez]

I agree with you, and I don't understand why so many people insist in
"banning" the word "Boo" in this list.
What's the problem guys? Is this a taboo or something?
Isn't this list open for discussion of all things related to Python?
Isn't Boo related to Python?
And if you think it is not "related enough", what's the problem if
somebody mentions it here?
I find interesting the topic and I like to hear about it from time to
time, as well as many other topics (prothon, ironpython, stackless,
pypy, etc, etc).

Please people, relax... peace!

 

[Brian van den Broek]

Doug Holton said unto the world upon 2004-12-20 18:45:

I gave such a short answer because the way you framed your "questions"
and the context of your post made it clear you are a troll. Your reply
here was yet another troll. You are one of the reasons why so-called
"newbies" and others are being intimidated away from this list.
-Doug

Fearing I might be spraying gasoline about:

I'm not really a member of the Python community, and haven't posted too
much to the list, but I read it regularly and find it quite valuable.
I'm a noob and once or twice in posts here have managed to manifest
that. Despite that, I've never felt unwelcome.

Some context given, let's, for the sake of argument, grant the claim
that Peter was trolling. (Though I do wonder if you saw the smiley he
employed above.) Then let me ask you this: does pushing that and similar
points through several iterations on multiple threads really seem a very
good method for making the list appear to be friendly welcoming place
that I presume you want it to be?

Best to all,

Brian vdB

 

[Michael Hoffman]

The syntax is indeed virtually identical to python. You are yet another
person who has trolled before. See your obvious trolling reply here,

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Mike Meyer]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I agree. I also like the quote.

<mike

 

[Tim Peters]

[Doug Holton]
....

But I will not be intimidated by the likes of Fredrik Lundh. Trollers
will be held accountable.

Doug, Doug, Doug. Fredrik isn't a troll. He's a Swede. Trolls are Norwegian.

Lighten up, please. Fredrik is usually terse, and sometimes curt
(although Americans seem to have a hard time distinguishing those) --
that's his culture and his nature. But he's been a very active and
welcome member of the Python community for at least a decade "in spite
of" that, and you're the first person I've seen to go on repeatedly
about their dislike for his posting style.

Try to read him as actually saying something, and you'll rarely be
disappointed. If you just can't stand the way he expresses himself
anyway, fine, ignore him. He really isn't "a troll" by any sensible
meaning of the term. He says what's on his mind, and then shuts up.
It's a fact that he's been extremely helpful to countless people here
over the years, but if you're looking for touchy-feely welcome or
appreciation, don't look to /F for it. That's my job here <wink>.

the-joy-that-is-python-is-exceeded-only-by-the-joy-that-is-you-ly
y'rs - tim

 

[Alex Martelli]

I agree. I also like the quote.

Seconded -- "The Princess Bride" is a well-worth-quoting masterpiece.


Alex

 

[Stephen Thorne]

To actually answer your question, no, there is no standard for enums in
python. There are custom hacks for it that you can search for.

This is a good sugestion for Python 3.0, a.k.a. Python 3000:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/Python3.0

In the future you may be able to to this:

enum Color:
Red
Green
Blue

However, Python 3.0 is likely years away. If you want to know how to
run this code today, consult Fredrik Lundh.

Is this a Sig? What is this referring to? You've said it in reply to
more than one post in the last week. Got a url I can read about the
Fredrik Lundh Python Syntax Manglation Consulting Service?

Stephen.

 

[Fredrik Lundh]

This I again agree with. I understand that Prothon is also a *different* though Python inspired
language. Also that it is still under development.

http://www.prothon.org/

"All work on Prothon has been halted"

(the site is pointing to a new project, Pycs, whose site is pointing to a new
project, Spry, "the first dynamic language to have all the best capabilities of
Python, Prothon, and C# (actually C-Omega) in one language", on which
"work has rarely begun")

</F>

 

[Erik Max Francis]

(the site is pointing to a new project, Pycs, whose site is pointing to a new
project, Spry, "the first dynamic language to have all the best capabilities of
Python, Prothon, and C# (actually C-Omega) in one language", on which
"work has rarely begun")

How bizarre is it that they're trying to "sell" Spry by indicating it
uses the "very best" features of Prothon, given that Prothon was a
failed project?

 

[Fredrik Lundh]

Do you have financial conflict of interest too like Fredrik?

I suggest you do your homework, and post an apology. Immediately.

</F>

 

[Fredrik Lundh]

I think the python community should be prepared to accept an increasing number
of people who just want to get something done with whatever tools they have
available (windows, mac, .net, etc) and with whatever skills they already
have acquired.

you know, I've been working with Python for ten years now, and it's always
been this way: most Pythoneers just want to get something done.

that's why the language is still growing, and is still speading to new interesting
problem domains.

(and by the way, comp.lang.python isn't "the community". most python pro-
grammers are elsewhere, and will only read what we post when googling for
the answer to some specific problem...)

</F>