Python education survey

[Ian Kelly]

In any case, removing IDLE without a much better replacement is pretty much
out of the question. If people installed Python in vanilla Windows install,
they would only have Notepad to edit their code.

No no, Wordpad is much better for editing Python. It even supports
(manual) syntax highlighting!

And of course for the console lovers there is MS-DOS Edit.

 

[Eelco]

Eelco, please don't get offended, but can you (and everyone else) stop
using silly verbage like "used to", "use to", "suppose to", "hard"
when you "difficult", and "pretty" when you mean "very". I find this
verbiage to be quite ridiculous. In this case you could have simply
said...

"""Before using VIM, I USED gedit."""

or if you want to stress that you don't use gedit anymore you could
say...

""" Previously i used gedit, but have since moved on to VIM."""

Thanks

Despite the fact that you mis-attributed that quote to me, im going to
be a little bit offended in the name of its actual author anyway.
Thats a lot of words to waste on your linguistic preferences.
Personally, I reserve the right to botch my non-native languages as
much as I please.

I always though "run" was a perfect verb for "running" code... but who
knows

Im assuming the audience is familiar with an ipod, but not an IDE, or
programming in general. To their eyes, it looks like a 'play' button;
but yes, 'running' is what its called in my mind.

 

[K Richard Pixley]

IIRC, all I had to do to set up PyDev was copy a URL to Eclipse's
"Install New Software" wizard, and have Eclipse download and install it.
Extra steps are needed if a different implementation of Python (e.g.
Jython) is needed, but other than that, the user only needs to specify a
couple options (e.g. Python grammar version) at project creation time.
This assumes that Python is already installed, but why wouldn't it be?

You still need to match versions of PyDev to versions of Eclipse to
versions of operating system to versions of other eclipse plugins. I
spent a few days trying to get it together once and came to the
conclusion that it was a much bigger effort than I was willing to commit to.

AFAIK, Eclipse should always be good for Java unless you do some serious
hacking.

Depends on which versions of eclipse, java, os, other plugins, etc.

There are a ton of editors that have syntax highlighting and other
little features for many languages.

Exactly. My preference is emacs but I'll admit that the learning curve
there is pretty high by today's standards. (Whether it's worth the
effort is a debatable point.) There are certainly many others.

--rich

 

[Andrew Berg]

You still need to match versions of PyDev to versions of Eclipse to
versions of operating system to versions of other eclipse plugins. I
spent a few days trying to get it together once and came to the
conclusion that it was a much bigger effort than I was willing to commit to.

This is more of a package management issue than an Eclipse one. I had no
problems getting the very latest stable versions of everything on
Windows. I'm pretty sure most schools will be using Windows for
workstations anyway. In any case, if Eclipse is impractical for whatever
reason, obviously it would be wise to try something else.

Depends on which versions of eclipse, java, os, other plugins, etc.

How so? AFAIK, Eclipse is almost (if not completely) unusable without Java.

 

[88888 Dihedral]

There are Dr.Python, Pycrust and Notepadplus to support writing python programs.

IDLE is OK, but if a program failed inside IDLE, then I might have
to kill the old IDLE and restart IDLE again.

 

[88888 Dihedral]

There are Dr.Python, Pycrust and Notepadplus to support writing python programs.

IDLE is OK, but if a program failed inside IDLE, then I might have
to kill the old IDLE and restart IDLE again.

 

[Rick Johnson]

Despite the fact that you mis-attributed that quote to me, im going to
be a little bit offended in the name of its actual author anyway.
Thats a lot of words to waste on your linguistic preferences.
Personally, I reserve the right to botch my non-native languages as
much as I please.

I hope you're just joking a bit because i have little respect for
those who refuse to better themselves. If you are learning English as
a second language then you have a legitimacy excuse, but at some point
that excuse just becomes a lie. In any case, i apologize for mis-
quoting you.

Im assuming the audience is familiar with an ipod, but not an IDE, or
programming in general. To their eyes, it looks like a 'play' button;

I would be very careful about introducing new words, or borrowing
words, to replace tried and true technical terms that have existed for
along time. As a matter of fact, the BDFL make the point better than i
ever could:

GvR speaking about ABC's design: """ The ABC group assumed that the
users had no prior computer experience (or were willing to forget it).
Thus, alternative terminology was introduced that was considered more
"newbie-friendly" than standard programming terms. For example:
procedures were called "how-tos" and variables "locations". """

 

[Rick Johnson]

There are Dr.Python, Pycrust and  Notepadplus to support writing pythonprograms.

I really like Pycrust. It's written in Python, it's code base is
structured in a professional manner (IDLE you should be jealous!), and
it works well. However, it is dependent on WxPython; so that's right
out.

IDLE is OK, but if a program failed inside IDLE, then I  might have
to kill the old IDLE and restart IDLE again.

Yes, i've had to kill many frozen instances of IDLE. It gets
aggravating.

 

[Tim Chase]

I hope you're just joking a bit because i have little respect
for those who refuse to better themselves. If you are learning
English as a second language then you have a legitimacy
excuse, but at some point that excuse just becomes a lie.

I'm glad you're open to learning more about English as "used to"
is perfectly acceptable according to the World English Dictionary[1]

"""
2. (takes an infinitive or implied infinitive) used as an
auxiliary to express habitual or accustomed actions, states, etc,
taking place in the past but not continuing into the present: I
don't drink these days, but I used to; I used to fish here every day
"""

May you be found better for learning and come to give others the
benefit of the doubt.

-tkc

[1]
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/used to

 

[Rick Johnson]

I'm glad you're open to learning more about English as "used to"
is perfectly acceptable according to the World English Dictionary[1]
[...]
May you be found better for learning and come to give others the
benefit of the doubt.

I don't care what ANY dictionary says. Much less a "world" dictionary.
I don't validate or invalidate a word based on some phony baloney
group of pseudo intellectuals who decided one to day that writing a
dictionary "might be cool". I am against these words and phrases
because we already have words that work just fine. Why rock the boat?

Why would you use a word like "hard" (which describes the physical
properties of a tangible object), to describe how "difficult" a task
may be? If you insist on this lunacy, then why not use "soft" to
describe how easy a task may be? Seems ridiculous now, huh?

Garbage Verbiage Translator:
Used to -> previously|before
Supposed to -> required|expected
Use to -> accustomed|acquainted
Right (OOC) -> Correct
Hard (OOC) -> Difficult
Pretty (OOC) -> very

This is group has the most dumbest smart people i have ever met!

 

[Chris Angelico]

I don't care what ANY dictionary says. Much less a "world" dictionary.
I don't validate or invalidate a word based on some phony baloney
group of pseudo intellectuals who decided one to day that writing a
dictionary "might be cool".

Finally we know who Ranting Rick is the alt of. He's Humpty Dumpty!

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Through_the_Looking-Glass,_and_What_Alice_Found_There/Chapter_VI

ChrisA

 

[rusi]

On 12/27/2011 11:59 AM, K Richard Pixley wrote:> You'd do better to encourage eclipse, but setting that up isn't

IIRC, all I had to do to set up PyDev was copy a URL to Eclipse's
"Install New Software" wizard, and have Eclipse download and install it.
Extra steps are needed if a different implementation of Python (e.g.
Jython) is needed, but other than that, the user only needs to specify a
couple options (e.g. Python grammar version) at project creation time.
This assumes that Python is already installed, but why wouldn't it be?

There was a recent announcement about eclipse for python (pydev)
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg320434.html

It did not work for me -- got a backtrace. I responded with that.
There was no further response.
Just mentioning that at least in some cases it does not 'just work.'

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

I'm glad you're open to learning more about English as "used to" is
perfectly acceptable according to the World English Dictionary[1] [...]
May you be found better for learning and come to give others the
benefit of the doubt.

I don't care what ANY dictionary says. Much less a "world" dictionary. I
don't validate or invalidate a word based on some phony baloney group of
pseudo intellectuals who decided one to day that writing a dictionary
"might be cool". I am against these words and phrases because we already
have words that work just fine. Why rock the boat?

Why do you say "rock" when the word "shake" is just as good?

Why do you say "boat" when we already have "ship"?

Why do you say "pseudo intellectuals" when you could say "fake
intellectuals"?

Why do I waste my time reading your pretentious self-important nonsense?


[...]

This is group has the most dumbest smart people i have ever met!

Considering I keep expecting you to stop trolling, I admit this applies
to me.

 

[rusi]

Why do I waste my time reading your pretentious self-important nonsense?


Considering I keep expecting you to stop trolling, I admit this applies
to me.

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/show/55234

 

[Eelco]

I hope you're just joking a bit because i have little respect for
those who refuse to better themselves. If you are learning English as
a second language then you have a legitimacy excuse, but at some point
that excuse just becomes a lie. In any case, i apologize for mis-
quoting you.

Yes, I was joking a bit; I learned my english primarily on programming
boards, and im proud to say it rivals that of a majority of native
speakers (low bar to beat, true). Furthermore, you are free to direct
criticism at my writing or that of anyone else, but I must say I dont
much care to hear it. A language is learned by using it, in reading,
writing or speech; not by grammar nazis, or style nazis for that
matter. Im here to discuss issues related to python, and anyone who
manages to make himself understood is welcome to do so, as far as I am
concerned. Im much more worried whether they have something
interesting to contribute to the actual discussion. Not getting stuck
picking nits, fighting personal feuds or getting dragged into the
swamp by trolls; those are the real challenges, in my opinion.

If you are insistent on bettering yourself; there is half a dozen
other languages we could continue the conversation in. Your marginal
gain per sentence read and written might be much larger there than in
english.

 

[Grant Edwards]

Why do you say "rock" when the word "shake" is just as good?

Why do you say "boat" when we already have "ship"?

Why do you say "pseudo intellectuals" when you could say "fake
intellectuals"?

Why do I waste my time reading your pretentious self-important nonsense?

http://xkcd.com/386/

 

[Roy Smith]

http://xkcd.com/386/

Why ROFLMAO when double-plus funny works just as well?

 

[Alexander Kapps]

Why ROFLMAO when double-plus funny works just as well?

xkcd/386 has been the excuse for replying to RR for ages and I still
don't understand why he gets that much advertence. Charity? Sympathy
for the lone and broken?

FWIW, it undermines all my attempts to block him. Sigh.

 

[Grant Edwards]

xkcd/386 has been the excuse for replying to RR for ages and I still
don't understand why he gets that much advertence. Charity? Sympathy
for the lone and broken?

Sadly, RR's post are often (in the supposed words of Wolfgang Pauli)
"not even wrong".

 

[Alexander Kapps]

Sadly, RR's post are often (in the supposed words of Wolfgang Pauli)
"not even wrong".

I'm sure, RR is now jumping up high in rapture for being compared to
high-profile scientist geniuses. Move fuel for his self-affirmation.

I'll give my entire kingdom (or important body-parts, in case my
kingdom isn't enough) if people would just understand that
perfection(ists) is/are *the most* dangerous thing possible.