"Python" is not a good name, should rename to "Athon"

G

greg

Dotan said:
C++ is obviously C+1, ie, what comes after C.

Although it was a bit rude to choose the destructive form
C++ instead of C+1. Many programmers are quite happy with
C as it is and don't want their language overwritten!

Also there's the rather confusing fact that the value of
the expression C++ is actually C. So when using C++ you
only get to take away the old language, and you have to
leave the new one behind in its place...
 
B

Bjoern Schliessmann

Tóth Csaba said:
Lets evaluate from the Python3000: Newton3 (N3).

+1 vote from me :)

Nah.

BTW, why exactly do you keep using an X-Face header completely
identical to mine?

Regards,


Björn
 
R

Russ P.


Python is an "acceptable" name, but Newton1 (or Newton3) would be a
great name. Shouldn't a great language have a great name? I think so.
And I think Python3000 is a great opportunity to give it a great name.

Of course, if Guido disagrees, I can always use

alias newton=python

Ah, the wonder of unix.
 
D

Dennis Lee Bieber

Think about proposing its use to someone who has never heard of it
(which I did not too long ago). As the OP pointed out, a Python is a
snake. Why should a programming language be named after a snake?
Why should a programming language be named after a 19th century
lady? (cf: Ada) Or someone even older? (cf: Pascal, Euclid, and Euler)
Maybe something even "slimier" than a snake? (cf: Algae

You'd prefer some great ugly acronym from the days of small memory?
PERL, FORTRAN, COBOL, BASIC; 5-level paper tape and Baudot character
set?

Pythons are big, non-poisonous snakes good for keeping the rats out
of a system <G>

However, the language was not named after a snake, but a comedy
troupe... Just think -- it could have been named "Fawlty"... Or,
shifting performer... Bean or Blackadder (which would seem to fit a
cunning language, no?)

Unfortunately Bliss as a language is already taken... And the
generic king is also taken: REXX (along with a less generic king of the
faerie: Oberon)

Heck, lots of names are take:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabetical_list_of_programming_languages
I know that. But "C" was already a dumb name, and "C++" compounded the
dumbness. Actually, "C" was probably intended as a temporary name for
internal use, but not for a widely used, standard language.
The precursor is commonly claimed to be BCPL through a short lived B
(a simplified BCPL) and then to C (the second letter in BCPL, hence one
old joke that the successor to C would be named P)

--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
(e-mail address removed) (e-mail address removed)
HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
(Bestiaria Support Staff: (e-mail address removed))
HTTP://www.bestiaria.com/
 
G

George Sakkis

Pythons are big, non-poisonous snakes good for keeping the rats out
of a system <G>

I'm looking forward to Spider(TM), the first bug-free language ;-)
 
H

Hendrik van Rooyen

Russ P. said:
I am surprised to see that Newton is not taken. I urge
Guido to take it while it is still available. Sir Isaac
certainly deserves the honor.

Does he? Are you aware of how he treated Hooke?

He was a great technician, but as a person, you would
not have had him marry your sister.

- 1 on this silly "Newton" idea.

- Hendrik
 
R

Russ P.

Does he? Are you aware of how he treated Hooke?

He was a great technician, but as a person, you would
not have had him marry your sister.

- 1 on this silly "Newton" idea.

- Hendrik

I neither know nor care much about Newton's personality and social
graces, but I can assure you that he was more than a "technician" (no
offense to technicians).

If you just read the Wikipedia preamble about him you will realize
that he is arguably the greatest scientist who ever lived. Sorry for
the inefficient use of bandwidth, but I just couldn't refrain from
copying it here:

Sir Isaac Newton FRS (pronounced /ˈnjuËtÉ™n/) (4 January 1643 – 31
March 1727) [ OS: 25 December 1642 – 20 March 1727][1] was an English
physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, and
alchemist. His treatise Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica,
published in 1687, described universal gravitation and the three laws
of motion, laying the groundwork for classical mechanics, which
dominated the scientific view of the physical universe for the next
three centuries and is the basis for modern engineering. He showed
that the motions of objects on Earth and of celestial bodies are
governed by the same set of natural laws by demonstrating the
consistency between Kepler's laws of planetary motion and his theory
of gravitation, thus removing the last doubts about heliocentrism and
advancing the scientific revolution.

In mechanics, Newton enunciated the principles of conservation of
momentum and angular momentum. In optics, he invented the reflecting
telescope and developed a theory of colour based on the observation
that a prism decomposes white light into a visible spectrum. He also
formulated an empirical law of cooling and studied the speed of sound.

In mathematics, Newton shares the credit with Gottfried Leibniz for
the development of the calculus. He also demonstrated the generalized
binomial theorem, developed the so-called "Newton's method" for
approximating the zeroes of a function, and contributed to the study
of power series.

In a 2005 poll of the Royal Society of who had the greatest effect on
the history of science, Newton was deemed more influential than Albert
Einstein.[2]
 
D

Dotan Cohen

I think that one-letter names are even worse for languages than they
are for variables.

And they are impossible to google.

Update: well, they were when _I_ needed to... I just tried, and both
"C" and "C++" gave relevant results. A few years ago, "C" would not
return anything programming-related, and "C++" returned exactly the
same results as "C". Google has improved (I say that weekly).

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
×-ב-×’-ד-×”-ו-×–-×—-ט-×™-ך-×›-ל-×-מ-ן-× -ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 
D

Dotan Cohen

Does he? Are you aware of how he treated Hooke?

He was a great technician, but as a person, you would
not have had him marry your sister.

I'm still convinced that Leibniz _threw_ the apple at Newton's head.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
×-ב-×’-ד-×”-ו-×–-×—-ט-×™-ך-×›-ל-×-מ-ן-× -ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 
B

Bjoern Schliessmann

Russ said:
Python is an "acceptable" name, but Newton1 (or Newton3) would be
a great name.

Nah, I like Monty and Snakes. Newton already has his name as unit
for kg*m/s^2. :)

Regards,


Björn
 
S

Steven D'Aprano

I neither know nor care much about Newton's personality and social
graces, but I can assure you that he was more than a "technician" (no
offense to technicians).

If you just read the Wikipedia preamble about him you will realize that
he is arguably the greatest scientist who ever lived.

"Arguably" is right.

Please, stop with the fanboy squeeing over Newton. Enough is enough.
Newton has already received far more than his share of honours.

He might have been a great intellectual but he was no scientist. It's
only by ignoring the vast bulk of his work -- work which Newton himself
considered *far* more important and interesting than his work on physics
and mathematics -- that we can even *pretend* he was a scientist.

Newton was arrogant, deceitful, secretive, and hostile to other peoples
ideas. Arrogance sometimes goes hand in hand with intellectual
brilliance, and there's no doubt that Newton was brilliant, but the last
three are especially toxic for good science. His feuds against two of his
intellectual equals, Leibniz and Hooke, held mathematics and the sciences
back significantly. They weren't the only two: he feuded with Astronomer
Royal John Flamsteed, John Locke, and apparently more tradesmen than
anyone has counted. He held grudges, and did his best to ruin those who
crossed him.

Historians of science draw a fairly sharp line in the history of what
used to be called "natural philosophy" (what we now call science). That
line is clearly drawn *after* Newton: as John Maynard Smith has said,
Newton was the last and greatest of the magicians, not the first of the
scientists. He was first and foremost a theologian and politician, an
alchemist, a religious heretic obsessed with End Times, and (when he
wasn't being secretive and isolating himself from others) a shameless
self-promoter unwilling to share the spotlight.

The myth of Newton the scientist is pernicious. Even those who recognise
his long periods of unproductive work, his wasted years writing about the
end of the world, his feuds, his secrecy and his unprofessional grudges
against other natural philosophers, still describe him as a great
scientist -- despite the fact that Newton's way of working is anathema to
science. The myth of science being about the lone genius dies hard,
especially in popular accounts of science. Science is a collaborative
venture, like Open Source, and it relies on openness and cooperation, two
traits almost entirely missing in Newton.

There is no doubt that Newton was a great intellect. His influence on
mechanics (including astronomy) was grand and productive; that on optics
was mixed, but his alchemical writings have had no influence on modern
chemistry. Newton's calculus has been virtually put aside in favour of
Leibniz's terminology and notation. The great bulk of his work, his
theological writings, had little influence at the time and no lasting
influence at all.

Newton was lucky to live at a time of great intellectual activity. Had he
lived thirty years earlier, his secrecy would almost certainly have meant
that his discoveries, such as they were, would have died with him. Had he
lived thirty years later, others like Leibniz, Hooke, the Bernoullis, or
others, would have made his discoveries ahead of him -- perhaps a few
years or a decade later, but they would have done so, as Leibniz
independently came up with calculus.

There's no doubt that Newton was a genius and an important figure in the
history of science, but to describe him as a scientist is to distort both
the way Newton worked and the way science works. By all means give him
credit for what he did and what he was, but don't pretend he was
something that he was not.
 
C

Clement

Wasn't Ra the Sun god?

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.comhttp://gibberish.co.il
×-ב-×’-ד-×”-ו-×–-×—-ט-×™-ך-×›-ל-×-מ-ן-× -ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

use my name : clement programming languge .. nice la.........
 
R

Russ P.

He might have been a great intellectual but he was no scientist. It's
only by ignoring the vast bulk of his work -- work which Newton himself
considered *far* more important and interesting than his work on physics
and mathematics -- that we can even *pretend* he was a scientist.

The fact that someone studies theology does not mean that he cannot
also be considered a scientist. And if the person who discovered the
inverse-square law of universal gravitation is not a "scientist," I
don't know who is.

At the time, no one else had even made the connection between things
falling on earth and the motion of the stars and planets. Sure, it
seems obvious to you and me, but it was far from obvious then.

In any case, Newton is just one example of a great mathematician/
scientist whose name could be used for a programming language.

Euler was an amazing mathematician (and also a nice guy with a large
family). His name would be great too, except that it's apparently
already taken. I don't know how widely used the Euler language is, but
if it is just some obscure language, then the name could perhaps still
be used. The other problem with Euler is that its pronunciation is not
obvious from the spelling.

Here's another interesting possibility: Pythagoras. It starts off with
the same first four letters as Python. Everyone's heard of the theorem
named after him (although he apparently did not discover it himself).
The main drawback here is that the name is a bit long at ten
characters.
 
G

greg

Russ said:
I am surprised to see that Newton is not taken.

Not for a language, but there is a physics simulation
library called Newton -- which is a more appropriate
use of the name, I think. To me, he's more associated
with physics than mathematics.

If you want a really appropriate name for a programming
language, I'd suggest Babbage. (not for Python, though!)
 
M

MonkeeSage

"Arguably" is right.

Please, stop with the fanboy squeeing over Newton. Enough is enough.
Newton has already received far more than his share of honours.

He might have been a great intellectual but he was no scientist. It's
only by ignoring the vast bulk of his work -- work which Newton himself
considered *far* more important and interesting than his work on physics
and mathematics -- that we can even *pretend* he was a scientist.

Newton was arrogant, deceitful, secretive, and hostile to other peoples
ideas. Arrogance sometimes goes hand in hand with intellectual
brilliance, and there's no doubt that Newton was brilliant, but the last
three are especially toxic for good science. His feuds against two of his
intellectual equals, Leibniz and Hooke, held mathematics and the sciences
back significantly. They weren't the only two: he feuded with Astronomer
Royal John Flamsteed, John Locke, and apparently more tradesmen than
anyone has counted. He held grudges, and did his best to ruin those who
crossed him.

Historians of science draw a fairly sharp line in the history of what
used to be called "natural philosophy" (what we now call science). That
line is clearly drawn *after* Newton: as John Maynard Smith has said,
Newton was the last and greatest of the magicians, not the first of the
scientists. He was first and foremost a theologian and politician, an
alchemist, a religious heretic obsessed with End Times, and (when he
wasn't being secretive and isolating himself from others) a shameless
self-promoter unwilling to share the spotlight.

The myth of Newton the scientist is pernicious. Even those who recognise
his long periods of unproductive work, his wasted years writing about the
end of the world, his feuds, his secrecy and his unprofessional grudges
against other natural philosophers, still describe him as a great
scientist -- despite the fact that Newton's way of working is anathema to
science. The myth of science being about the lone genius dies hard,
especially in popular accounts of science. Science is a collaborative
venture, like Open Source, and it relies on openness and cooperation, two
traits almost entirely missing in Newton.

There is no doubt that Newton was a great intellect. His influence on
mechanics (including astronomy) was grand and productive; that on optics
was mixed, but his alchemical writings have had no influence on modern
chemistry. Newton's calculus has been virtually put aside in favour of
Leibniz's terminology and notation. The great bulk of his work, his
theological writings, had little influence at the time and no lasting
influence at all.

Being fair, the bulk of Liebniz' writings have also been rejected by
those in related fields. Most modern metaphysicians hold a view closer
to Boston Personalism or at least post-Kantian Personalism (a la
Buber), than monadic unity and pre-established harmony, a la Liebniz.
It is an instance of the genetic fallacy to reject the achievements of
a person in one field, simply because of their failures in another.
Newton was lucky to live at a time of great intellectual activity. Had he
lived thirty years earlier, his secrecy would almost certainly have meant
that his discoveries, such as they were, would have died with him. Had he
lived thirty years later, others like Leibniz, Hooke, the Bernoullis, or
others, would have made his discoveries ahead of him -- perhaps a few
years or a decade later, but they would have done so, as Leibniz
independently came up with calculus.

There's no doubt that Newton was a genius and an important figure in the
history of science, but to describe him as a scientist is to distort both
the way Newton worked and the way science works. By all means give him
credit for what he did and what he was, but don't pretend he was
something that he was not.

That said, I think this whole "rename python" thing is silly.

Regards,
Jordan
 
S

Steven D'Aprano

Being fair, the bulk of Liebniz' writings have also been rejected by
those in related fields. Most modern metaphysicians hold a view closer
to Boston Personalism or at least post-Kantian Personalism (a la Buber),
than monadic unity and pre-established harmony, a la Liebniz. It is an
instance of the genetic fallacy to reject the achievements of a person
in one field, simply because of their failures in another.

I'm not suggesting that Leibniz was any more of a scientist than Newton
was, nor am I suggesting that Newton's achievements should be *rejected*
(er, except for those pesky Quantum Mechanics and Relativity things...).
I'm just saying that we should understand Newton for what he actually
was, and not based on the 18th Century revisionism.
 
M

MonkeeSage

I'm not suggesting that Leibniz was any more of a scientist than Newton
was, nor am I suggesting that Newton's achievements should be *rejected*
(er, except for those pesky Quantum Mechanics and Relativity things...).
I'm just saying that we should understand Newton for what he actually
was, and not based on the 18th Century revisionism.

Fair enough. Understanding a person in their own context, especially
given the modern tendency to appropriate anything remotely similar to
the modern view as their own, is a rare quality (at least among
philosophers). I'm not a 'Newtonian fanboy' as it were, I just dislike
the uniformitarian push for a "one right view" of physics/metaphysics,
as if there were no room for innovation!

Regards,
Jordan
 

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