Re: I have a problem with this:

[Jenn]

I understand. The main problem in learning something new is actually
doing something with it. IOW, you need a project. Since you can't
view/source to see any php code (thank goodness), that limits you. Also,
you probably don't know C, or Java (not Javascript), or even Basic.
Knowing another programming language -- not a markup language --
is a major advantage in learning the second, third, etc. programming
language.

I've actually studied vb and wrote a desktop app in it, and then vb.net and
upgraded my first app to vb.net, so I'm familiar with at least that much
using Visual Studio. I wanted to see if I could learn it or not, so I took
a summer and bought a book and did it.

So, to learn it, if you are so interested, either pick up a book or google
some training site for it. One such is w3schools.com. Start small and
build from there. In all cases make sure you keep the same style and
indent properly ALL the time. Above all, you need to develop good habits
in programming from the beginning so that you will react to bad code the
way an ex smoker does to the smell of a lit cigarette.

Remember that a (if not THE) MAJOR part of server side code is interacting
with a database. As such, knowledge of SQL is an absolute must. Without
it you would be like a first grader trying to do a doctoral thesis.
Fortunately, it is not too difficult to learn. (BTW, SQL stands for
_Structured_ Query Language.)

About a year ago I ended a 6 month training opportunity with T-SQL using
Visual Studio 2008 (trial version for so many months). The SQL was not
difficult to learn, but when I got done with the training the boss who was
training me at the time, left and went somewhere else. I was supposed to be
training to do this in order to begin building a specific application for
the IT department. I was going to continue learning as I built the app.
After he left he tool all his training materials with him that I was using
and all I have left are my extensive notes. The remaining people in IT
decided they didn't need the app., which was quite frustrating and
depressing on top of it.

If you do decide to go for it, and want someone to review some code, I
would be willing to help. My email is sheldonlg AT thevillages DOT net.
However, remember that you would be doing so as a novice php coder, not as
a "lady". Also, the appropriate news groups are comp.lang.php and
comp.database.mysql. (You will access to a host and be able to create a
database and have access to it).

Really? You would help me?? All the tools I had to use were on my work
computer. I think I have SQL Server Management Studio Express on my laptop
but I'd have to look. What software would I need to try this? I'm not even
a novice at php tho... I've never even tried to code it.

It is a long road, but every journey begins with but a single step.

I appreciate the offer to help me.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

I haven't made it a goal of mine to learn server-side scripting at this
time, anyway.

Oh, then none of you sites have contact forms (pseudo mailto: links
don't cut it a web mail modern world) nor order forms nor access to a
database? That eliminates any commercial client except for web
"yellow-page" sites.

 

[Jenn]

Of course that also eliminates AJAX unless someone else handles the
Javascript and tells her what Javascript activation function to call.

Well.. some of that is how it's done where I work ... but not all ... I do
build forms using server-side code already written and designed a specific
way to function. It has to be that way. I learned their methods and
implement the forms needed using their server code, and I can style it with
CSS various ways. Some AJAX already exists from the server side.. again ..
I have to use what they have written on the back-end, but I also can use
other AJAX I find when/if I need something to function apart from what has
already been set up on the back-end. I also implement other functionality,
new pages, js, etc. to produce new content pages as needed including on
occasion, plain html forms with js that performs simple tasks. If
management wants something and the server people say "it can't be done", I'm
the one who figures out how to *do it* despite them saying it can't be done.
I figure it out. I do the best I can and research what I don't know how to
do so I can make what they want to do on the site.. happen. Maybe twice in
4 yrs., I couldn't find a way to do what management wanted.

Yeah.. I know... ya'll will probably say what I do is not perfect or
professional. I work very hard to give the bosses what they want. I am
constantly learning something new, too.

 

[Jenn]

Yes, there are stupid customers. Smart ones say "what do I need to make
the user spend his money here? All else is secondary".

Many sites I've designed and/or built were informational sites for small
businesses.. a few were just personal sites.

Do anything on the web other than a friend's web page and you will see
them. Just about every single business has a web site. Even the mom and
pop florist shop has one -- and they are almost all database driven.

Yes ... very true ... I haven't really gotten into any db driven sites,
although I've studied how to do them.... been a while tho.

 

[Jenn]

On 5/10/2010 2:20 PM, Jenn wrote:
I taught college part time after work for twenty years and high school
full time for four years. My daughter (she is _very_ smart) learned the
basics of php within a couple of weeks and simply "absorbed" sql. After a
few months she began working on more intricate sites. I was amazed by how
quickly she moved from web designer to web developer.

The main thing I had to drill into her (then thick, because of the
sloppiness of using tools such as Dreamweaver to code html,) skull was the
absolute necessity for good looking, structured, formatted code. Any time
she asked for my help and it wasn't clean, I said "I can't read this".
She learned quickly.

About the only thing I've ever used Dreamweaver for is the coding mode.
Design mode was never very useful using ascx/aspx/aspx.config pages.

Anyway, this is better taken off-line. So email me, and I will respond
with my replies to this post via email. (Your email above is a phoney,
not that I blame you ).

Ok ... I will do that later today. Thanks.....

 

[freemont]

The issue is _IF_ annd when you ever decide to learn php and program in
it, then the "good enough to get the job done" attitude will lead to
more problems and headaches than you can even begin to imagine. You
need to be completely structured and organized from step 1, and you need
to code so that _another_ coder can pick up your work, understand it
quickly, and carry on. Anything less is an invitation for migraines and
disaster. That is what I meant by "good enough" is never "good enough".

If she approaches server-side scripting and web apps with the same
driving curiosity and attention to detail as she's brought to simple html
and css, I grieve for anyone unfortunate enough to entrust their personal
details or credit card information to any site she creates.

 

[Jenn]

Other than shopping carts (like ZenCart) and the like, where all the work
has basically been done for you, all the rest will require knowledge of
how to code server code and knowledge of databases.

As I said before ... I'm familiar with some db coding, but never had the
chance to progress after the training I got because my IT trainer left last
year. Soooo ... I make due and keep working.

 

[dorayme]

The issue is _IF_ annd when you ever decide to learn php and program in
it,

An issue which you have pulled out of your hat for obscure
reasons of your own.

 

[dorayme]

I haven't seen any professional sites here yet, only hobby type sites.

To be fair to Jonathan Little, did he not offer more than hobby
sites earlier on?

 

[Jenn]

To be fair to Jonathan Little, did he not offer more than hobby
sites earlier on?

Not sure.. I haven't been reading everyone's posts all along. Got any links?

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Not sure.. I haven't been reading everyone's posts all along. Got any links?

My own is is commercial. A little old-in-the-tooth.

 

[Neredbojias]

Miami/Ft. Lauderdale area is totally different. I lived there for
three years before returning to the US (central Florida where the
primary language is English). Really, it is a vastly different
climate.

I've been to the Orlando area a few times, and, yeah, it's pretty nice.
Can get darn cold in winter sometimes, though. However, as to your
point, I probably wouldn't mind living there.

What do you do if some nut in another car on the highway points a gun
at you?

Well, the obvious thing to do is to roll down your window and tell him
he's an asshole.

I live in what looks like suburbs -- no jungle. I haven't seen any
snakes.


Oh, you mean a the ones with coconuts. I'm too far north. That is
in the sourthern part of Florida. Florida is about 350 miles north
to south.

The place you live does sound pretty good. I'm in Arizona so our
respective climes are not too different and I do like the weather here.

 

[Neredbojias]

On 5/10/2010 1:42 AM, Neredbojias wrote:

Do you know the classic meaning of chutzpah? It is the young man who
throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan
after being convicted of killing his parents.

<grin> Yeah, that's a classic all right. The trouble with chutzpah is
that many people who have it tend to be con artists and scammers. The
non-chutzpahist has to be very careful these days.

 

[Neredbojias]

I have NO idea what you are talking about here. AJAX is:
(1) Javascript to send an asynchronous call to a server side script
(2) Set up a listener for a response
(3) Receive the response and kill the listener
(4) Put that response to work on the page

Apparently *I* have no idea what Ajax is, either. Can you give of
simple little example of the javascript involved (-properly annotated,
of course)? Heretofore I thought Ajax was simply melding j/s with
server-side code, hence my earlier remark about a typical reload.

 

[Jenn]

My own is is commercial. A little old-in-the-tooth.

ahhh ... dogs! I have a collie. http://snipurl.com/w4wov

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

ahhh ... dogs! I have a collie. http://snipurl.com/w4wov

Yes, my wife's area of expertise is painting the 4-legged "family". Only
have one example of Rough Coated Collie though:

http://www.littleworksstudio.com/gallery.php?byid=coll

Our dogs are a bit different:

http://www.amberlithe.com/

 

[Jenn]

Apparently *I* have no idea what Ajax is, either. Can you give of
simple little example of the javascript involved (-properly annotated,
of course)? Heretofore I thought Ajax was simply melding j/s with
server-side code, hence my earlier remark about a typical reload.

Here is an example of some AJAX tabs

http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex17/ajaxtabscontent/index.htm

 

[Jenn]

Yes, my wife's area of expertise is painting the 4-legged "family". Only
have one example of Rough Coated Collie though:

http://www.littleworksstudio.com/gallery.php?byid=coll

Our dogs are a bit different:

http://www.amberlithe.com/

Interesting breed of dog you have there ..

 

[Neredbojias]

Rather than try to do it justice, why not simply Google "AJAX
tutorials". There is a wealth of info, but basically the steps are
as I indicated.

I tried that a long time ago and all I got was a blurb for women about
how to clean the kitchen and bathroom properly. I tried again the next
day and got something about someone associated with a certain Hector
and Trojans and Greekery so I stopped right there.

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

I don't write PHP to begin with ..... so I don't really understand the
issue?

It doesn't have to be PHP, it can be any server side language, PHP, ASP,
ASPX, etc.

Never trust the client. Please read up on SQL Injection.