reading from a socket

[James Kuyper]

On 06/23/2011 06:02 AM, Noob wrote:
....

He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep - wake him.

Hey! He might need his sleep. Leave him alone!

 

[Keith Thompson]

What about those who know not but are absolutely convinced that they do
know better than anyone else? ;-)

Already covered; see "fool".

 

[blmblm]

BGB<[email protected]> writes:

[ snip ]

or such...

Eh?

Maybe you're making a different point, Ben, but this reminds me
that I'm curious about that "or such" -- to me it doesn't seem like
native-speaker-idiomatic English, and I'm mildly curious about whether
it's idiomatic in some English I don't know, or perhaps a word-for-word
translation of something idiomatic in another language. BGB -- ?

I am a native speaker, but a decent part of my life has been lived in
places where English is not the dominant language. such as Europe for my
early years and on an island near south-east Asia, where there were lots
of Pacific Islanders (like Chukese and Philippinos and similar) and also
Chinese and similar around...

currently, I am living in the US though, and my parents are native to
the US.

Another pet theory shot down!

as for my writing style, I don't know. writing has never really been my
strong point (well, I am not the best at reading either though, as
books/reading/... make head want to sleep, but this is a different
issue). I tend to at times write large amounts of text though.

some people have before described my speech patterns as "stilted" and
"high-speed and monotone" though. others have at times accused me of
generally talking a bit loudly, ... as well.

I hope this won't be offensive, but .... a touch of Asperger's maybe?
sort of a , since I think a lot of us technical types at least lean
that way. Except that you also say ....

I guess according to psychology, I am an extrovert (like, ESTP or
somewhere around there, sometimes ESTJ, and a few times as ENTJ, also
ISTP sometimes as well, but ESTx is a fairly common result in general,
and seems to recently be mostly hanging out somewhere around ESTP...).

but, sadly, my social skills are not always great either, so mostly I
sit around and work on projects and similar.

in any case, I write as I write, and it has generally always been this way.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[blmblm]

BGB <[email protected]> writes:

[ snip ]

or such...

Eh?

Maybe you're making a different point, Ben, but this reminds me
that I'm curious about that "or such" -- to me it doesn't seem like
native-speaker-idiomatic English, and I'm mildly curious about whether
it's idiomatic in some English I don't know, or perhaps a word-for-word
translation of something idiomatic in another language. BGB -- ?

A very common expression in American speech. It is a contraction of
the idiom "such and such".

Huh. I'm a native speaker of American English, and it's new to me
(obviously).

Now, "*and* such" I recognize as a common idiom, though more as
something one would use at the end of a list of things (e.g.,
"lions and tigers and such"). But not "or such". Well, learn
something new, maybe. Maybe, as someone else suggested, I *should*
ask in one of the language-usage groups (alt.usage.english would be
my preference).

 

[BGB]

[ snip ]

or such...

Eh?


Maybe you're making a different point, Ben, but this reminds me
that I'm curious about that "or such" -- to me it doesn't seem like
native-speaker-idiomatic English, and I'm mildly curious about whether
it's idiomatic in some English I don't know, or perhaps a word-for-word
translation of something idiomatic in another language. BGB -- ?

A very common expression in American speech. It is a contraction of
the idiom "such and such".

Huh. I'm a native speaker of American English, and it's new to me
(obviously).

Now, "*and* such" I recognize as a common idiom, though more as
something one would use at the end of a list of things (e.g.,
"lions and tigers and such"). But not "or such". Well, learn
something new, maybe. Maybe, as someone else suggested, I *should*
ask in one of the language-usage groups (alt.usage.english would be
my preference).

dunno.

in my case, parents were originally from the Oregon/Washington area (my
dad from Washington, my mom from Oregon). ethnicity is mixed, but
majority Scotch-Irish (AKA: Ulster Scots).

in the US, I have lived there (long ago), and also in Nevada and Arizona
(current).

I have little idea if my speech or writing patterns are really common to
anywhere though.

 

[Michael Press]

You have completely misinterpreted the response. It was not a
dismissal. It was not rude. It was the most helpful answer that
could have possibly been given.

The OP has since posted his question to comp.unix.programmer.
He's gotten several replies, and apparently his question has now
been answered to his satisfaction.

Furthermore, before he posted to comp.unix.programmer, the OP
*thanked* the first responder for redirecting him. Why are you
offended on his behalf?

I believe you owe "Noob" (the poster who suggested
comp.unix.programmer) an apology.

BGB punctuates his prose with ellipses thus making
himself awkward to read. I addressed him on this topic
and he did not reply. For this reason alone I consider
him not worth addressing further.

 

[Michael Press]

BGB <[email protected]> writes:

[ snip ]

Eh?

Maybe you're making a different point, Ben, but this reminds me
that I'm curious about that "or such" -- to me it doesn't seem like
native-speaker-idiomatic English, and I'm mildly curious about whether
it's idiomatic in some English I don't know, or perhaps a word-for-word
translation of something idiomatic in another language. BGB -- ?

BGB chooses an idiomatic prose style.
I took him up once on it and was ignored.

 

[BGB]

BGB<[email protected]> writes:

[ snip ]

or such...

Eh?

Maybe you're making a different point, Ben, but this reminds me
that I'm curious about that "or such" -- to me it doesn't seem like
native-speaker-idiomatic English, and I'm mildly curious about whether
it's idiomatic in some English I don't know, or perhaps a word-for-word
translation of something idiomatic in another language. BGB -- ?

BGB chooses an idiomatic prose style.
I took him up once on it and was ignored.

I vaguely remember something like this, but at the time I did not have
any good response, and it seemed like making a big fuss out of nothing,
and I also didn't really feel much like responding to what appeared to
be a personally directed attack.

I am well aware that my writing sucks, but it is slow and awkward to try
to write more properly, so this is usually reserved for writing things
like documentation and specifications and similar.

even then, things like writing papers or similar are something I tend to
do poorly at in classes (teachers don't much like my papers).


I think my writing generally maps fairly well to what I think, so I
mostly write whatever it is I am thinking about, and try where possible
to avoid going off too much on random tangents (I am also prone to do
this as well, as chains of thought may go A->B->C and drift ever further
from the original topic, but on the upside, can often have multiple
parallel chains of thought, and seem at least acceptable at multitasking
and similar).

in terms of understanding things, I tend to understand everything fairly
literally, and tend to generally fail to see/understand things like
"implications" or "symbolism" or non-literal statements (I often just
see something that doesn't make much sense, and am usually like "oh
well, whatever", as it is often a lot of effort and guesswork to try to
figure out what was being written about).


I am also not good with "principles" as often the principle bears
little/no resemblance to the text it is usually based on (so it is often
not clear what if anything the principle has to do with the input text).


I think my thinking far more often involves the use of "templates",
where one has something in-mind which is similar to what they want, and
so then they can tweak it in-mind until it does what they want it to do.

granted, there are often relatively few good ways to summarize things
without making them no longer make sense, so describing something
effectively often requires lots of words (or including links to relevant
information and/or documents).


I generally like programming though, as at least most
documentation/specs tend to make sense (usually far more sense than most
casual writing), and am also prone to reading a lot of stuff off of
wikis (one reads a wiki, gets distracted reading about various topics,
multiple hours go by, then one realizes that their hours have been used
up reading stuff off of a wiki).

I don't read much fiction though, nor all that many books in general.

I generally like online information, as then one can fetch whatever
information they need at the moment.


granted, how this whole chain of events (in this thread) got in motion
was by me making a misguided value judgment over what peoples'
intentions were (whether or not I or anyone else was "correct" didn't
really seem like so much of an issue, as "correct" is very often more a
matter of perspective and interpretations and similar anyways, and
usually is more a matter of whether or not things can be made to work as
intended, so it was more the intentions involved which seemed relevant).

admittedly, I thought the OP was actually asking about a different issue
as well (namely, about how to deal with the socket blocking on a read
request when there was no input present).


a difficult thing about online stuff is that one really has no sense of
what peoples' moods and feelings and similar are (one can't get a feel
for what others are thinking or feeling, or how much of what they are
saying means to them personally, or similar), so one can't really so
much take them into consideration when responding to things. this isn't
as much of an issue IRL, but not like much good happens IRL either.

however, one is often left to realize that far more often emotions,
especially ones' own emotions, are a dangerous thing (as they are prone
to jump to decisions, cause impulsive actions, and so on).

but, possibly, I wasn't really being all that careful, and emotions
pulled a nasty trick and caused a regrettable result.

 

[BGB]

[ snip ]

or such...

Eh?


Maybe you're making a different point, Ben, but this reminds me
that I'm curious about that "or such" -- to me it doesn't seem like
native-speaker-idiomatic English, and I'm mildly curious about whether
it's idiomatic in some English I don't know, or perhaps a word-for-word
translation of something idiomatic in another language. BGB -- ?

BGB chooses an idiomatic prose style.
I took him up once on it and was ignored.

I vaguely remember something like this, but at the time I did not have
any good response, and it seemed like making a big fuss out of nothing,
and I also didn't really feel much like responding to what appeared to
be a personally directed attack.

I am well aware that my writing sucks, but it is slow and awkward to try
to write more properly, so this is usually reserved for writing things
like documentation and specifications and similar.

even then, things like writing papers or similar are something I tend to
do poorly at in classes (teachers don't much like my papers).


I think my writing generally maps fairly well to what I think, so I
mostly write whatever it is I am thinking about, and try where possible
to avoid going off too much on random tangents (I am also prone to do
this as well, as chains of thought may go A->B->C and drift ever further
from the original topic, but on the upside, can often have multiple
parallel chains of thought, and seem at least acceptable at multitasking
and similar).

in terms of understanding things, I tend to understand everything fairly
literally, and tend to generally fail to see/understand things like
"implications" or "symbolism" or non-literal statements (I often just
see something that doesn't make much sense, and am usually like "oh
well, whatever", as it is often a lot of effort and guesswork to try to
figure out what was being written about).


I am also not good with "principles" as often the principle bears
little/no resemblance to the text it is usually based on (so it is often
not clear what if anything the principle has to do with the input text).


I think my thinking far more often involves the use of "templates",
where one has something in-mind which is similar to what they want, and
so then they can tweak it in-mind until it does what they want it to do.

granted, there are often relatively few good ways to summarize things
without making them no longer make sense, so describing something
effectively often requires lots of words (or including links to relevant
information and/or documents).


I generally like programming though, as at least most
documentation/specs tend to make sense (usually far more sense than most
casual writing), and am also prone to reading a lot of stuff off of
wikis (one reads a wiki, gets distracted reading about various topics,
multiple hours go by, then one realizes that their hours have been used
up reading stuff off of a wiki).

I don't read much fiction though, nor all that many books in general.

I generally like online information, as then one can fetch whatever
information they need at the moment.


granted, how this whole chain of events (in this thread) got in motion
was by me making a misguided value judgment over what peoples'
intentions were (whether or not I or anyone else was "correct" didn't
really seem like so much of an issue, as "correct" is very often more a
matter of perspective and interpretations and similar anyways, and
usually is more a matter of whether or not things can be made to work as
intended, so it was more the intentions involved which seemed relevant).

admittedly, I thought the OP was actually asking about a different issue
as well (namely, about how to deal with the socket blocking on a read
request when there was no input present).


a difficult thing about online stuff is that one really has no sense of
what peoples' moods and feelings and similar are (one can't get a feel
for what others are thinking or feeling, or how much of what they are
saying means to them personally, or similar), so one can't really so
much take them into consideration when responding to things. this isn't
as much of an issue IRL, but not like much good happens IRL either.

however, one is often left to realize that far more often emotions,
especially ones' own emotions, are a dangerous thing (as they are prone
to jump to decisions, cause impulsive actions, and so on).

but, possibly, I wasn't really being all that careful, and emotions
pulled a nasty trick and caused a regrettable result.

This is all clear to me. Your train of thought is easy to follow,
and your prose well connected.

don't know why it would be much easier than any of my other text, apart
from at the moment me not writing about technical matters.

If I may? Use standard English capitalization. Really, there is
no difference between writing a program that compiles, and
writing prose according to standards of grammar.

I usually only really use capitalization for documentation or similar,
but not usually for usenet posts or emails.

partial reason I think is personal convention, as I have just never
really capitalized these.

also, I don't do touch-typing either, but usually use a few fingers from
each hand. shifting or similar requires placing a finger to hold down
the shift while usually using the other hand for typing the letters or
similar. although, on typing tests I can usually pull off 35-40 WPM not
using touch-typing, which is usually good enough. touch-typing feels
awkward and makes it harder to access numbers and symbols, vs using 2 or
3 fingers from each hand which may move more freely. as a downside it
does require a partial view of the keyboard mostly to maintain alignment
and similar (but usually I mostly watch the screen and use peripheral
vision for hand alignment and similar).


granted, I have my own conventions that people make fuss over sometimes,
like always using forks (including for soups/cereal), and generally
using knives for stirring things. then people make fuss over stuff like
this, and I am like "well, whatever" since if the food gets eaten or the
drink stirred, what does it matter which exact implement was used?

if one buys into all of this stuff, then it is also like society
stealing ones' individuality, in much the same way that being forced
into a dress code threatens to take away ones' individual identity.


or such...

 

[Patrick Scheible]

I usually only really use capitalization for documentation or similar,
but not usually for usenet posts or emails.

partial reason I think is personal convention, as I have just never
really capitalized these.

Not capitalizing makes it harder to read. People use capitalization to
parse sentences quickly and easily in one pass.

There's a lot of poorly written junk on Usenet that many people just
skip over. Do you want your posts to be skipped over? If not, make it
easy for your readers. Your call.

-- Patrick

 

[Michael Press]

also, I don't do touch-typing either,

Here is a good place to learn. It is a straightforward
site without all the useless glitz.
<http://www.typeonline.co.uk/>
There are many others.

Do a lessen each day. Repeat previous lessons as well.
Best to keep a constant pace. As my music teacher said,
"If you want to play it fast, you need to be able to
play it slow.

 

[Seebs]

in terms of understanding things, I tend to understand everything fairly
literally, and tend to generally fail to see/understand things like
"implications" or "symbolism" or non-literal statements (I often just
see something that doesn't make much sense, and am usually like "oh
well, whatever", as it is often a lot of effort and guesswork to try to
figure out what was being written about).

I am also not good with "principles" as often the principle bears
little/no resemblance to the text it is usually based on (so it is often
not clear what if anything the principle has to do with the input text).

This sounds autistic. In fact, nearly all of what you wrote in this post
sounds autistic. You may want to look into that. Being autistic has its
ups and downs, but being a *diagnosed* autistic generally has many more
ups and many fewer downs.

-s

 

[Kenny McCormack]

skip over. Do you want your posts to be skipped over? If not, make it
easy for your readers. Your call.

He can probably live without (and in fact do just fine) those kind of
(idiot) people reading his stuff.

No loss.

 

[BGB]

This sounds autistic. In fact, nearly all of what you wrote in this post
sounds autistic. You may want to look into that. Being autistic has its
ups and downs, but being a *diagnosed* autistic generally has many more
ups and many fewer downs.

errm... I am already diagnosed as autistic (more specifically, as
Aspergers).

however, if one doesn't mention it, often not that many people notice,
but if a person does mention it, then people often overreact and treat
oneself as if they are disabled / retarded / "special-needs" / ...,
which is generally more of a hassle than it is worth.

much like mentioning that I am also ethnically partially Ashkenazi (in
addition to being Scotch-Irish), which also has mixed results, as many
people are not exactly favorable towards people with this ethnicity (one
ethnicity is more neutral, the other has stereotypes of greedy
troll-like investment bankers endlessly complaining about everything
going on around them...).


or such...

 

[BartC]

granted, I have my own conventions that people make fuss over sometimes,
like always using forks (including for soups/cereal), and generally

They might have a point there; consuming liquids with a fork would be rather
futile for most people.

using knives for stirring things.

After using forks for everything else, why break the pattern and not use one
for stirring too? It would certainly simplify keeping your cutlery drawer in
order.

 

[Seebs]

errm... I am already diagnosed as autistic (more specifically, as
Aspergers).

Ahh, that's helpful!

however, if one doesn't mention it, often not that many people notice,
but if a person does mention it, then people often overreact and treat
oneself as if they are disabled / retarded / "special-needs" / ...,
which is generally more of a hassle than it is worth.

Yeah, I've noticed. I sometimes actually rely on this, because the sorts
of people who like to bully disabled people are likely to try to bully
me; I'm a not-very-confrontational person with an obvious disability.

This results in hilarity as they try to hurt my feelings by indicating that
they don't respect me.

What I've found is that in groups like this, the people who reward
attempts to communicate them make more informed decisions if they know
I'm autistic, and the people who react badly are not usually people I
was going to communicate with successfully anyway.

much like mentioning that I am also ethnically partially Ashkenazi (in
addition to being Scotch-Irish), which also has mixed results, as many
people are not exactly favorable towards people with this ethnicity (one
ethnicity is more neutral, the other has stereotypes of greedy
troll-like investment bankers endlessly complaining about everything
going on around them...).

I am sure that if we mixed the stereotypes enough, we could get something
truly awesome, like a belligerent drunk who frequently gets to the office
too late in the day to foreclose on little old ladies. That would be
an AMAZING stereotype.

-s

 

[Vinicio Flores]

Can you put the source code of the application???
maybe I can help you