Beginner needs help with script :)

[Player]

Seems to me that the subject line already told us as much as we needed
to know about the questioner and its attitude to posting guidelines.


Indeed!

So basically Alan J Flavell what your saying is that a beginner shouldn't
come to these forums and post a question about perl AT ALL?

Because the subject line of my original post, has absolutely nothing wrong
with it. It line states that I am a beginner and that I need help with a
perl script, just as no doubt thousands of other people have come into this
and other perl groups before looking for help.

What got up your particular nose hmm? Is that I am a beginner? or is that I
have the audacity to use the news group for its was created for in the first
place hmmm?

Please explain to me in detail what the hell is wrong with a beginner coming
to a perl news group seeking help with a script?
Because I would really like to no.

Player

 

[Tad McClellan]

And yes every single you reply with obnoxious comments, I will fire them
right back at you again, two fold.

You are obviously a troll then.

Trolls don't get much help with their questions once identified.

 

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

So basically Alan J Flavell what your saying is that a beginner
shouldn't come to these forums and post a question about perl AT
ALL?

That's of course not what Alan meant. He objected to the subject line,
which indisputably is useless as a description of the nature of your
problem. The posting guidelines for this newsgroup

http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html

include advice how to compose the subject line, and Alan was also
refering to the fact that you either have not read them, or don't
care to follow them. Whichever is the case, it's remarkable, to say
the least, considering that you claim to 'know it all'.

 

[Player]

This is not a helpdesk. That you think you have a right to do whatever you
like because you pay for nntp access is a joke and turns my stomach. What do
you think everyone else here is doing? We're not here to answer your
questions.

Matt

Erma if I so chose, I could post 459,000 posts in each news group, and do it
legally, this is not some private club, it is an open news group on the
Internet. Obviously I wouldn't and don't do such things as post that many
times, but my point is valid, this isn't a private club, people can and do
as they please within these walls, it's just that 99.9% of us -me included
now I read the stuff at the url- abide by a set of guidelines for the
better.
These news groups are here for people to fire questions of each and help
each other out.
Especially news groups on computer languages, that is THE PRIMARY reason for
their existence, that and getting out info on new releases and updates.
So don't sit there and tell me that me posting a question was some how
wrong, because that question happened to come from a beginner.
Because if your saying that, and I no that your trying to, then you are quit
simply -MISTAKE-

I no everyone here is not here to please me and answer my questions, BUT the
news group is here for people to fire questions of each other in the hope
that help might be given.

So don't even come that attitude with me, because it fell through the floor
as you were typing it.

Player

 

[Tad McClellan]

So basically Alan J Flavell what your saying is that a beginner shouldn't
come to these forums and post a question about perl AT ALL?

That is an obsurd conclusion. How did you reach it?

Alan did not say anything about posting Perl questions, he said
something about the Subject header's contents.

With logic like that, you should consider some field other than programming.

Because the subject line of my original post, has absolutely nothing wrong
with it.

Says you.

But the Subject is not _for_ you, it is for the audience that you
are trying to reach.

Everyone except you thinks that there is something wrong with it.

(namely, we cannot tell what your article is about from the Subject)

It line states that I am a beginner and that I need help with a
perl script,

Your question is not about being a beginner.

Your question is about how to mark the end-of-file in a Windows
command interpreter (it is not even a question about Perl).

If you were using Python or Java instead of Perl, you would mark
the eof the same way, it does not depend on your choice of
programming langauge.

just as no doubt thousands of other people have come into this
and other perl groups before looking for help.

So then your message is just like the other 200 that are posted here
each day. Your choice of Subject added no value whatsoever.

Nobody reads all 200. They must "filter" them somehow (by seeing
what the Subject header says).

Your Subject does not help potential answerers determine whether they
might be able to help with your subject, because they cannot tell
what your subject is.

So they will skip your article and go on to one who's author has
taken the trouble to accurately describe what it is that they
need help with.

Do you _want_ people to ignore your questions?

Sure does seem like it...

What got up your particular nose hmm?

You did something socially unacceptable.

You must expect some angst when you choose to be socially unacceptable,
that shouldn't be too hard to see, yet you cannot see it...

Is that I am a beginner?

No, it is that you were being rude.

Polite beginners get help with their problems here every day.

Please explain to me in detail what the hell is wrong with a beginner coming
to a perl news group seeking help with a script?

Nothing, but that is not what happened in this thread, so I wonder
why you bring it up.

Because I would really like to no.

You are not fooling anyone with that.

On the contrary, you have displayed a remarkable _resistance_ to
finding out what was seen as rude in your original post.

 

[A. Sinan Unur]

I don't take kindly to people telling me, "DON'T" one something I pay
money to gain access to

Hmmm ... you are not paying anyone here.

Don't be a troll.

 

[Player]

If you are new to Usenet then you cannot possibly know what is
seen as rude and what is not.

What I classed as being rude, was and is what any normal person would
class,as, 'being rude' in an everyday situation. If you grasp that, and
simply have to apply all my statement to your small little news group world,
then so be it. But please don't complain when you missunderstand peoples
posts and cause a conflict in the discussion/debate/argument/troll
fest/bullying/what ever.

You are making stuff up to justify your mistake.

That is big of you.

Completely false, I made nothing up, and stand by every single word I have
said so far.
Other than me missunderstanding what was originaly meant by Gunnar
Hjalmarsson
I see nothing wrong what-so-ever in my responses to your obvious delight in
trying to amuse yourselves with bullying me.

You were not being bullied.

Rubbish, now who is making things up hmm?

You took cuts in line.

I took no cuts in line, because I didn't no that posting as a did in 2
groups was as you put it, 'cutting in line'.

Gunnar said don't take cuts in line.

That is understood now, so what is your problem? or is it the case that you
haven't yet had your fill of trying to belittle someone online today hmm?
I meet your type all the time in life, your type usualy ends up in jail or
some sort of a leader of lost sheep out in the sticks somewere were you can
play your power games uninterupted.

You responded that you paid to enter the theme park and that you
will not wait in line.

I responded that I paid to be online, and in that I meant that I had a right
to be here and ask questions as much as the next person. At the time I didnt
realise what Gunnar Hjalmarsson was trying to get across and it seemed
bullyish to me, I was mistaken I have admited that now.
I said nothing of any theme park, nor did I no of any rules, or that the
news group was refered to as a theme park, at least in your heads, or that
an outsider making a simple mistake woulod be treated like an alien with
total contempt.

Everybody else paid to enter too, yet you claim that you have
some special privilege over everyone else?

No not in the slightest, thats just inj your head, so once again who is
making things up hmm?

Ludicrous!

Yes quite.
Player

[snip] I view a programming language as a place to be
explored, like Disneyland. You don't need to have a lot of preparation
to explore a theme park. You do have to go along with the crowd
control measures, though. In a sense, each ride has its own
prerequisites--if you cut in line, you risk getting tossed out of the
park.

What we have here in this newsgroup is a failure in crowd control.
Reading the FAQ is like staying in line--it's something you should
learn in kindergarten. Usenet needs a better kindergarten.

and as I am new to news
groups in general,

You seem to claim expertise in what is acceptable in newsgroups though.

How do you justify such a position when you have just gotten here?

I am hardly going to no every single detail of what-ever
bunch of in-house-secret-guidelines people have made up over the years.

If you take cuts in line people will not like you.

If people do not like you, they are not likely to help you.

Do you want your questions to be answered or ignored? You choose.



The rudeness of multi-posting and full-quoting are neither secret
nor in-house. They apply universally to all of the big-8 newsgroups.

But in the end I would still say that telling someone 'DON'T in these
circumstances, is asking form trouble.

Sometimes we don't want to take the time to explain the reason
why you should wait in line, so we just caution you against
taking cuts.

If you follow the caution, you'll get more answers.

If you don't you won't.

You get to choose.

The appropriate response in most cases to such a statement, would be, "I Beg
your pardon? are some sort of authority figure here?"

I Beg your pardon? are some sort of authority figure here?

Gunnar had been posting here for a long time.

You just got here.

Who is more likely to know what is socially acceptable and what is not?



The killfile is most certainly the Right Place for you.

So long.

 

[Player]

That's of course not what Alan meant. He objected to the subject line,

which indisputably is useless as a description of the nature of your
problem. The posting guidelines for this newsgroup

http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html

include advice how to compose the subject line, and Alan was also
refering to the fact that you either have not read them, or don't
care to follow them. Whichever is the case, it's remarkable, to say
the least, considering that you claim to 'know it all'.

The I take it by that statement that these rules only apply to me and
certain other people then hmm?
Because just by quickly scanning through previous posts, I have counted 10
that are so titled in a similar way to mine.
And none of them get a response that tells them that they worded their
subject line wrong.

One would be
mrmikes:: newbie question, perl proxies.
Matija papecs:: strange behaviour
Michael dondies, 2 quick questions about perl6
Petterson Mikaels Beginner need help on perl issues.

I could go on and on and on.

Those titles are similar to mine, but in all the replies to their posts,
there isn't anyone telling them to not post posts with subject lines like
that because they are, in your words, 'useless.

So you see, your full of doo doo, and I put it to you that it is you who is
making things up, because otherwise, everybody else who so titled their
subject line in a similar manner to mine, would get the same ranting that
you are dishing.
BUT THEY DON'T AND HAVEN'T.

D'OH

Player

 

[Player]

You are obviously a troll then.

Says, you, I don't see yous topping or trying to help in anyway other than
to try and insult me.
And you have the nerv to call me a troll.

Trolls don't get much help with their questions once identified.

Wht a surprise.

Player

 

[gnari]

[snip ctrl-Z failing on XP]

Yeah what it is asking is for the reader to to the ctrl+d or ctrl+z to stop
the stdin and go onto the next line.
But when pressing ctrl+d or ctrl+z in the windows xp command console black
window, it simply prints either of these two characters on the command
console window, ^z ^d

So as yet I haven't a clue as to what I can do to make the script work.

works on windows2000:
==
C:\perlcode>perl test.pl
Enter students names (press <CTRL>+Z when done):
name1
anothername
onemoreforluck
^Z


Enter associated grades (press <CTRL>+Z when done):
1
2
3
^Z

C:\perlcode>
==

can you cutandpaste equivalent terminal output from your
end ? (not that we do not believe you did it correctly,
but you never know...)

gnari

 

[Player]

That is an obsurd conclusion. How did you reach it?

Alan did not say anything about posting Perl questions, he said
something about the Subject header's contents.

With logic like that, you should consider some field other than

programming.

Yes what he was saying was that the subject matter in my subject line, told
him that I was in some way not me btohered with or that I was in some way
wrong or something similar.
And I put it to him and you that my subject line simplysays I am a beginner
who needs help, and you cant get more honest and humble than that in front
of millions of people.
So I concluded that he must think I am not supposed to ask questions in this
forum, because that is what that subject line does.

Says you.

Yes I do say so.

But the Subject is not _for_ you, it is for the audience that you
are trying to reach.

Yes and asking for help because you are a beginner, in front of millions of
other readers, is very honest and humble I think. Considering I was entering
what I thought to be the realms of people who were genuises and could code
and understand a language that I couldn't, I would say I was being
forthright and brutaly honest with myself and those I wanted to meet and ask
questions of.
BOY was I wrong.

Everyone except you thinks that there is something wrong with it.

Well as I have said, I was being honest, you cant get MORE HUMAN than that.
Sorry my fault for being HUMAN i guess huh.

(namely, we cannot tell what your article is about from the Subject)

Yes you can, it says that a beginner needs help with a script.
If you don't understand that and couldn't read that and understand it in a
way that would automaticaly lead you to think, "right well elts have a look
at the script then"
Then you need to go back to school period.

Your question is not about being a beginner.

Your question is about how to mark the end-of-file in a Windows
command interpreter (it is not even a question about Perl).

Of course it is, that command is used in perl and it is were I first
experienced it, so naturaly BEING HUMAN I came to a place were I thought I
could get help with PERL.
D'OH stupid me, boy was I wrong.

If you were using Python or Java instead of Perl, you would mark
the eof the same way, it does not depend on your choice of
programming langauge.

How would I no this? hmmm?
I am a beginner.

So then your message is just like the other 200 that are posted here
each day. Your choice of Subject added no value whatsoever.

But the ones I showed as being similar to mine, got responses, none of them
got responses telling them to word their subject lines better, or in my case
more insulting words but meaning the same thing really, just made more
insulting to further belittle me.

Nobody reads all 200. They must "filter" them somehow (by seeing
what the Subject header says).

Probably so, I couldn't possibly say as I am new, but my point stands in
this sub point of many that have sprung up in this tirade of insults and
belittling being directed my way.
They didn't get told what I was told with regards to the subject title line.

Your Subject does not help potential answerers determine whether they
might be able to help with your subject, because they cannot tell
what your subject is.

So being human isn't enough in here is that what your saying?
Let me put it this way, apart from not being human in my atempts to
communicate with people in here, I should try and be all smart and technical
in my subject lines, even though I don't no the slightest damn thing about
the language yet. hrmm is that what your telling me?

So they will skip your article and go on to one who's author has
taken the trouble to accurately describe what it is that they
need help with.

'Taken the trouble' kinda forms the opinion that I in some way thought you
all complete slaves and idiots and that you would read my post no matter
what I put.
That is ludicrous, I was simply being human in a situation I was very
nervous about, as I don't and didn't want to fail in learning my 1st
computer language.

Do you _want_ people to ignore your questions?

Obviously not, do not speak down to me like I am a child sir, because I am
far from that, and if nothing else I will not have you trying to play school
headmaster with me.

Sure does seem like it...

Seem did a silly thing one day and never came back.

You did something socially unacceptable.

Well at the time I had no idea that it would be so.

You must expect some angst when you choose to be socially unacceptable,
that shouldn't be too hard to see, yet you cannot see it...

I can accept critism when I fully understand were the person is coming from
what I dont accept, is people trying to bully me, belittle me, and try to
humiliate me in front of thousand, just for laughs.

No, it is that you were being rude.

I was only being crass because i though the original reple was being so to
me, once I found out he wasn't, I understood.
However by then, half the population of the group thought it funny to join
in and try and humiliate and belittle me, not to mention dash any chances I
had of trying to get help.
Nice attitude to beginners you all have there, youa re to be commended on
your pure evilness.

Polite beginners get help with their problems here every day.

That is not my experience so far.

Nothing, but that is not what happened in this thread, so I wonder
why you bring it up.

I bring it up because of the multitude of other replies mixed in with yours,
that have been avalanshe dupon me in some insain atempt to try and get me to
back down abd be a good little obedient 'THING' and take the abuse like all
newcomers should.
Well not this guy, sorry.

You are not fooling anyone with that.

Well then thats alright then, because I wasn't trying to fool anyone,
everything I have said has been up front and honest.

On the contrary, you have displayed a remarkable _resistance_ to
finding out what was seen as rude in your original post.

I have admited 3 times now that I was mistaken in my understanding of the
original repliers post.
I have said that I was mistaken in thinking that what the original replyer
said, was a bulolish attitude, and that me coming fresh faced into the news
group leadme to be unprepared for certain things that everyone else takes
for granted.

 

[Player]

Hmmm ... you are not paying anyone here.

Don't be a troll.

No I pay my isp for the privilege of being able to access these groups.

Player

 

[Player]

You weren't being bullied. You were given good advice.

At first, yes you're quite correct, But unfortunately I didn't see it at
that time, and thought the person was being crass and bullish. I said I have
realised that now.

HOWEVER what has happened since that first post, is nothing short of
systematic group attempt at trying to humiliate and belittle me in front of
thousand of other readers.
Probably just for the fun of it to no doubt, or maybe because it's the
'DONE' round here I don't no.
But either way, I wont stand for it, period.

Player

 

[Player]

can you cutandpaste equivalent terminal output from your

end ? (not that we do not believe you did it correctly,
but you never know...)

gnari

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings>cd ..

C:\>cd Scripts

C:\Scripts>dir
Volume in drive C has no label.
Volume Serial Number is 7494-1D4D

Directory of C:\Scripts

31/05/2004 11:14 <DIR> .
31/05/2004 11:14 <DIR> ..
31/05/2004 12:15 429 gradehash.pl
31/05/2004 11:33 149 names.pl
2 File(s) 578 bytes
2 Dir(s) 8,400,154,624 bytes free

C:\Scripts>perl gradehash.pl
Enter students names (press <CTRL>+Z when done): sam tom bobZ
Z
Z


I tried three times to dfo it that time, and all it did was print the Z you
see there.

The code for the script is below here....

%grades=();

print "Enter students names (press <CTRL>+Z when done): ";
@names = <STDIN>;
chomp @names;
print "\n\n";
print "Enter associated grades (press <CTRL>+Z when done): ";
@scores = <STDIN>;

@grades{@names} = @scores

 

[Player]

The reply comes back

^Z

then I press enter/return and it simply goes onto the nest line and waits.

Player

 

[Player]

I think I figured the thing out anyways.

I have to press enter or return after every entry for the grades and names
lists and then do a CTRL+Z and then press enter/return again.

If I just run the script and enter the names one after the other just using
space bar to seperate them instead of using enter/return, then it doesnt
work.

Player

 

[Jürgen Exner]

No I pay my isp for the privilege of being able to access these
groups.

So what? So does the fast majority of Usenet users.
Do you really believe this gives you any right to (mis-)behave like you
please?

Luckily there is no need to read you.
Welcome to the kill file.

jue

 

[gnari]

C:\Scripts>perl gradehash.pl
Enter students names (press <CTRL>+Z when done): sam tom bobZ
Z
Z

assuming those Z's were ^Z's, i have no idea what is going on.
it looks like your shell is not honoring the CTRL-Z's.

let's take perl out of the equation. try the command
copy CON: blah.txt
enter a few lines of junk, ending with a line consisting
solely of CTRL-Z<enter>.
does it say '1 file(s) copied.' at that point?

this test might give us clues.
this is how it looks with me:
==
C:\perlcode>copy CON: blah.txt
oiuoiu
sdfsdf
^Z
1 file(s) copied.

C:\perlcode>more blah.txt
oiuoiu
sdfsdf

C:\perlcode>
==

gnari

 

[gnari]

I think I figured the thing out anyways.

I have to press enter or return after every entry for the grades and names
lists and then do a CTRL+Z and then press enter/return again.

If I just run the script and enter the names one after the other just using
space bar to seperate them instead of using enter/return, then it doesnt
work.

you would just get the names in the first array, element, but
the following ^Z lines should have worked nevertheless.

it seems that if you end a non-empty line with ^Z,
the next line will not close the input even if it
is a single ^Z, but the next one after that will:

==
C:\perlcode>perl test.pl
Enter students names (press <CTRL>+Z when done):
asd^Z
^Z
^Z


Enter associated grades (press <CTRL>+Z when done):
==

gnari

 

[A. Sinan Unur]

No I pay my isp for the privilege of being able to access these groups.

Too bad, 'cause your ISP ain't gonna answer your Perl questions. It seems
unlikely that many people here will either.

Paying your ISP does not give you the right to be rude to other people or
ignore conventions.

While no one can deny you the right to post here, you cannot compel
anyone to help you. People will only help you if you respect the free
help they provide you. Whether you would like to get help or just hear
the echos of your own posts as they fall to the bottom of the bit bucket
is up to you.

Don't be rude.