Beginner needs help with script :)

[Player]

Indeed. Newcomers are entirely welcome, but, as with any community,
it's helpful if they acquaint themselves with the local customs first.

Yes well HOW is a NEWCOMER supposedto no that they are to read and adhere to
some rules spelt out in a document somewere immediately upon entry?
People come here, they see questions asked in the posts, and so ask their
own.
It would take a good few times firest before a newcomer came across any post
that gave links to rules documents and hints and tips on how to behave in
these groups.

In my case, I did nothing wrong other than ask a very basic and ratyher
begginer'ish question, nothing more nor less.

I couldn't of worded my subjectline any nbetter than a did, because for me
to have to explain exactly what my problem was, on the subject line, would
of taken a few sentances.

Or, as the usenet saying has it, "lurk before you leap".

Yes it seems that a lot of TYPES of PEOPLES lurk here, mainly the classic
model type of a bully.

Just so. But subsequent developments have vindicated my initial
hunch, I think it's fair to say.

Those subsequent devlopments you speak of, were initialised and started by
the likes of you and your childish bullyish rantings and insults at myself.

Usenet helps those who give some impression that they're willing to
make a bit of an effort themselves. It's often helped me, and I'm
keen to repay that debt. But I'm no fan of leeches.

I had done everything I could of to try and figure out why the script didn't
work as was expected.
The only thing left to me was to ask someone with more experience than I.

Player

 

[Player]

Oh please, spare the BS. Your writing is terrible and you're pouting like a
child. High school may seem grown up to you, but you're not fooling anyone.
Now do the sensible thing and stop whining about your wounded "pride" before
you're killfiled by everyone in the newsgroup. You acted like a twit and got
treated like one. Live with it!

I am not the one pouting, it strikes me that it is you sir, and all your
other little members in this gang of bullies that you have here that is
pouting.
Pouting because someone had the audacity to slap you back in the face with
every atempt you and yours made at trying to bully and humiate my good self.

Your actions strike me as the antics of a group of jocks in a school yard
picking on the new boy because the new boy had the nerv to stick up for
himself.

And while we are on the subject of writing, yours is pretty shiite also.

Matt

Grammar tip of the day: "to know" is a verb; "to no" is not.

Yes well excuse me for typing fast and over looking the obvious, but it's
kinda hard for one person to reply to some many of societies worst within
any decent amount of time.

Player

 

[Player]

If you stop acting like a troll, then folks will not call you a troll.

Definition of a Troll = someone who acticly persues the goal of trying to
insite arguments and abusive commentary in the hope that those events might
bring him/her more attention.

That doeswn't strike me as the type of behaviour I have expressed so far in
my atempt to gain entry into this community.
It does however, explain the behaviour the the majority of those who have
replied to me so far, with the exception of a few.

Player

 

[norfernuman]

I don't no about you but I am human.

OK elephant man, did you read the page from the link I posted?
After your first response, it was going downhill at best.


Read it, especially the part about not getting your feelings hurt and
acting like an (_________).
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

So you didn't read it before posting the first time, perhaps instead of
getting mad a being corrected you should have read it then.
Chill out, read the doc. Go away for a month and come back and try again.

-NN

 

[Peter Hickman]

Erma if I so chose, I could post 459,000 posts in each news group, and do it
legally,

I would check your ISPs T & C before you try that. People like that tend to lose
their accounts.

These news groups are here for people to fire questions of each and help
each other out.
Especially news groups on computer languages, that is THE PRIMARY reason for
their existence, that and getting out info on new releases and updates.

No, this NG is just for people to talk bollocks about perl. Info on releases and
updates are handled in other NGs.

I no everyone here is not here to please me and answer my questions, BUT the
news group is here for people to fire questions of each other in the hope
that help might be given.

We are also not here to put up with you. Not only can we talk over problems with
perl we talk over problems with posters. This is an adult place that owes you
nothing, get used to it.

So don't even come that attitude with me, because it fell through the floor
as you were typing it.

Because of your attitude you have entered many killfiles, and for those who have
not plonked you will glance at your messages and skip them as the postings of a
kook.

You made a bad entrance, now perhaps is the time to make an exit.

 

[James Keasley]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Definition of a Troll = someone who acticly persues the goal of trying to
insite arguments and abusive commentary in the hope that those events might
bring him/her more attention.

That doeswn't strike me as the type of behaviour I have expressed so far in
my atempt to gain entry into this community.

For your first post, matbe not, that just lacked clue, for the rest though.

It does however, explain the behaviour the the majority of those who have
replied to me so far, with the exception of a few.

This is usenet, we aren't all particularly nice, we don't get paid to do
this, and we usually expect people to follow the accepted rules, deal with
it.

- --
James jamesk[at]homeric[dot]co[dot]uk

Linux- 'Cos Micro$oft is for Capitalists running DOS
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iD8DBQFAvKuiqfSmHkD6LvoRAkjlAJ9G42eermcnWCOGIxorNRi28IoN0wCfXrdk
Iw6ddIv5oQXnUdWWUIRPXwI=
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[Peter Hickman]

Yes what he was saying was that the subject matter in my subject line, told
him that I was in some way not me btohered with or that I was in some way
wrong or something similar.

Your subject line told us nothing about your problem. A good subject line will
tell a reader what the problem is about, databases, XML, particular modules.
This allows people with expertise in this area to pay attention to the message
and people with similar problems to look for the answers.

And I put it to him and you that my subject line simplysays I am a beginner
who needs help, and you cant get more honest and humble than that in front
of millions of people.

It told us nothing useful

Well as I have said, I was being honest, you cant get MORE HUMAN than that.
Sorry my fault for being HUMAN i guess huh.

Even this sorry is false! What is your problem.

Yes you can, it says that a beginner needs help with a script.
If you don't understand that and couldn't read that and understand it in a
way that would automaticaly lead you to think, "right well elts have a look
at the script then"

There are many messages posted daily to these newsgroups and we only skim the
subject lines. I have no interest in Oracle or perl on HP systems so I will skip
messages with that in the subject line. Post something about Mason and I will
read it, be vague and I will skip it. I do not have the time to read everything,
the only reason I am reading this it that trolls amuse me, and you are a troll.

So being human isn't enough in here is that what your saying?
Let me put it this way, apart from not being human in my atempts to
communicate with people in here, I should try and be all smart and technical
in my subject lines, even though I don't no the slightest damn thing about
the language yet. hrmm is that what your telling me?

No, we are telling you to stop being an arse.

Obviously not, do not speak down to me like I am a child sir, because I am
far from that, and if nothing else I will not have you trying to play school
headmaster with me.

You need it.

 

[Tad McClellan]

Yes well HOW is a NEWCOMER supposedto no that they are to read and adhere to
some rules spelt out in a document somewere immediately upon entry?

They are not.


They are supposed to respond something like:

Oh, I didn't know that, I'll go check it out.

Rather than:

Those rules are stupid and I don't have to follow them.

(which characterizes your response)

The only thing left to me was to ask someone with more experience than I.

We all have more experience than you do with Usenet in general and
this newsgroup in particular, yet you are determined to ignore their
voice of experience.

You are free to never come back if you don't like conforming
to the rules of this society.

 

[Matt Garrish]

Yes well excuse me for typing fast and over looking the obvious

A good summation of your stupidity.

Now go tell your wet-nurse about all the terrible bullies you ran into in
the sandbox today and see if she'll wipe your nose for you.

Matt

 

[Walter Roberson]

:Yes well HOW is a NEWCOMER supposedto no that they are to read and adhere to
:some rules spelt out in a document somewere immediately upon entry?

One of the few conditions for a system to become part of Usenet
is that the system is required to direct all new users to the
newsgroup news.announce.newusers . That newsgroup has in it a
series of messages about newsgroup decorum. One of the first pieces
of advice you will see in those messages is that you should always
sit back and watch the newsgroup for a few days before posting.

If you had sat back and watched this newsgroup for as long as 48 hours,
you would have seen one of the automated periodic postings that
advises people on how to get the most out of this newsgroup.

One of the other strong recommendations in news.announce.newusers
is that one should review past postings before placing ones one
posting. I rarely hear these days of any news server that does not
keep at least 3 days worth of archives of comp.lang.perl.misc --
and in those three days of archives, you would have found the
posting guidelines.

Many newsreaders also require, before submitting any particular
posting, that one answer positively to a notice that your message
will be going to hundreds if not thousands of systems, and to
confirm that you are sure that you wish to make the posting.


I would ask, in all seriousness, what further practical steps that we
could take that would -actually- have led to you being aware of the
posting guidelines before your posting. I have not followed every word
of this thread, but my -recollection- is that you said at one point
that you essentially just found the newsgroup, saw the short summary of
its purpose, and proceeded to place your posting. Is there anything
more we can do, that is reasonably within our control, to make
people aware of the posting guidelines, that would been found
by you before you posted? What, in other words, can we do in
practice to prevent future such misunderstandings from happening
with other persons?

 

[Walter Roberson]

:I responded that I paid to be online, and in that I meant that I had a right
:to be here and ask questions as much as the next person.

Could I ask you to explain that in more detail? Is your implication
that someone who has not "paid to be online" has less right to
express reasonable ideas/opinions than you, a paying customer of
your ISP have?

For example, I happen to be accessing this newsgroup through the
equipment at my workplace, because this newsgroup is one that is
very useful in learning how to use an important tool that I use as
part of my employment. I am thus not "paying" to access the group,
and indeed sometimes I get paid to access it. Are you attempting
to convey that my right of expression is less than yours?

Mind you, right at the moment, I'm connected to work via a residential
DSL service that my wife is paying for. If our family's residential
DSL service costs more than what you pay, do we have stronger
rights of expression than you do? And should that "costs more" be
on absolute terms or relative to the cost of living differences
between our locations? Is there a formulae for determining who has
more right of access that can be applied to people who are in areas
where telecommunications is expensive but the cost of living is low,
or vice versas?


There have been times when I have accessed this newsgroup through
a server operated by a non-profit group that I volunteered considerable
amounts of time to. They didn't pay me, I didn't pay them, but the
-value- of my contribution was high (the equivilent of several *years*
of full-time expert labour.) How do you figure our relative rights to
expression in that situation, where I paid with heavy effort but not
with my pocketbook?


Is it, in short, your suggestion that this newsgroup ought to comport
itself under the principle that the person who has paid the most in
out-of-pocket expenses to access the newsgroup should be the person
with the greatest influence on the way the newsgroup denizens interact?

If so, then shall we discuss the accounting rules we shall use to
determine those expenses? Net? Gross? Amoritized? 3 year rule?
Canadian Capital Costs Recovery rules (i.e., sinking fund which
is never entirely extinguished, as compared to the more common US
3-years total write-off accounting rule)? Should "system software" be
depreciated at a different rate than "system hardware?" Canadian
CCR rules put those on the same schedule but allow "application software"
to be written off in one year. How shall we take into account different
rates of inflation in different areas? How shall we take into account
currancy fluctuations?

 

[nobull]

This is not an everyday situation!

This is Usenet.

Sorry Tad I can't let that go unchallnged.

On entering any new social situation (club, workplace, country) one is
expected to research (or at least try to observe) what is accepted
behaviour. Not doing so would be classed as bein rude by any normal
person.

Usenet is no different at all. We should not give 'Player' the get
out clause of preteding that what he did would not be seen as rude in
the 'real world'.

 

[Player]

Sorry Tad I can't let that go unchallnged.

On entering any new social situation (club, workplace, country) one is
expected to research (or at least try to observe) what is accepted
behaviour. Not doing so would be classed as bein rude by any normal
person.

Usenet is no different at all. We should not give 'Player' the get
out clause of preteding that what he did would not be seen as rude in
the 'real world'.

I wouldn't, many a person says, "I beg your pardon" or words to similar
effect when confronted with replies similar to what experienced, and that is
more or less how I replied.

Player

 

[Andrew DeFaria]

I wouldn't, many a person says, "I beg your pardon" or words to similar
effect when confronted with replies similar to what experienced, and that is
more or less how I replied.

Player

Or perhaps, "Excuse me, where's the bathroom". Never had a restaurant or
club throw me out for asking that question!

 

[nobull]

Or perhaps, "Excuse me, where's the bathroom".

Note for non-English speakers (and people unable to read intonation in
plaintext )...

In English (and especially American English, IIRC) the phrase "I beg
your pardon" has two distinct meanings depending on tone of voice. In
one tone it means "I'm sorry, what have I done wrong?". In another it
is roughly equivalent to "screw you!".

Andrew, I suspect you are mis-reading Player's statement that his
response was '"I beg your pardon" or words to similar effect' as
meaning that he politely enquired what he had done wrong (which would,
of course, have been acceptable[1]).

This indeed is how I initially read his statement and I thought: how
can this guy think he can get away with making such obviously false
assertions about his previous behaviour when the truth is archived for
all to see?

If you go back look at Player's response you'll realise that when he
says that his words were to similar a effect as "I beg your pardon" he
is, in fact, referring to the use of this phrase in the tone of voice
where it means "screw you!".

So Player is being quite honest when he says that his response to
being advised that had acted in a way contray to local custom was
words to the effect of "screw you!". He is also right that there many
people who react will like that. He is wrong in his assertion
(delusion?) that those people are not generally considered rude[2].

[1] Barely acceptable - it is better to take a step back, look around
you and try to figure out what you'd done wrong and then just say
sorry.

[2] I'm sure there are specialised cultures where it is considered
acceptable.

 

[Ben Morrow]

Quoth (e-mail address removed):

In English (and especially American English, IIRC) the phrase "I beg
your pardon" has two distinct meanings depending on tone of voice. In
one tone it means "I'm sorry, what have I done wrong?". In another it
is roughly equivalent to "screw you!".

The distiction is just as present in British English.

Ben

 

[Player]

"Andrew DeFaria" <[email protected]> wrote in message

Or perhaps, "Excuse me, where's the bathroom".

Note for non-English speakers (and people unable to read intonation in
plaintext )...

In English (and especially American English, IIRC) the phrase "I beg
your pardon" has two distinct meanings depending on tone of voice. In
one tone it means "I'm sorry, what have I done wrong?". In another it
is roughly equivalent to "screw you!".

Andrew, I suspect you are mis-reading Player's statement that his
response was '"I beg your pardon" or words to similar effect' as
meaning that he politely enquired what he had done wrong (which would,
of course, have been acceptable[1]).

This indeed is how I initially read his statement and I thought: how
can this guy think he can get away with making such obviously false
assertions about his previous behaviour when the truth is archived for
all to see?

If you go back look at Player's response you'll realise that when he
says that his words were to similar a effect as "I beg your pardon" he
is, in fact, referring to the use of this phrase in the tone of voice
where it means "screw you!".

So Player is being quite honest when he says that his response to
being advised that had acted in a way contray to local custom was
words to the effect of "screw you!". He is also right that there many
people who react will like that. He is wrong in his assertion
(delusion?) that those people are not generally considered rude[2].

You could not be further from the truth.

[1] Barely acceptable - it is better to take a step back, look around
you and try to figure out what you'd done wrong and then just say
sorry.

Were I come from, England - Lancashire, when someone ask's you,
"I beg Your Pardon"
or words to similar effect, the general response is something along the
lines of a better explanation of
what was said before hand.
What doesn't happen often, unless like here people can get away with
virtual murder because of anonymity, is a bunch of people surrendering to a
hostile group mentality and behaving like huligans all be virbally, and
bullying someone who is very new to the sce, area, group, place -whatever.

[2] I'm sure there are specialised cultures where it is considered
acceptable.

Well it is obvious to me that for one to accepted within these walls, all
one has to do is surrender to the yobbish mob like group mentality and
proceed to abuse every newcomer or person who is deemed by more than one or
other of the said group, as victim material.


Player

 

[ChrisO]

To answer your question directly, use Ctrl/Z on Windoze and Ctrl/D on
Unix. I would assume your tutorial is somewhat "Unix" based as indeed
this is where Perl had its roots, so it stands to reason. ActiveState
Perl on Windows is about a fabulous an implementation of Perl as you are
ever going to get in that environment, yet still it doesn't translate
over 100% esp. from examples given on books like O'Reilly books (unless
specifically Win32 oriented.)

If you'd like to get an even closer "Unix feel" under Windows, including
using Perl (and which WOULD let you use Ctrl/D as an EOT), check into
installing Cygwin on your Windows machine. Highly recommended:
http://www.cygwin.com.

Some of the points you made in your diatribe in other parts of this
thread are understandable. There are quite a few people here that tend
to get a little "uppity" in my opinion and answer questions with their
noses somewhat in the air. Still... you are dealing with some of the
most intellegient people on the internet in this NG and to push your
points as you have done, as many as might agree with you in some measure
on some points is only going to land you in kill files and future
questions you post won't even make it onto the screens of many that
would have helped. I don't like to be pushed around either. Neither do
people here nor WILL they. (As a case in point, you totally MISSED the
point one person was making because you got your feathers ruffled a bit
prematurely...) You have a right to post here -- they have a right to
ignore you in the future by inserting you into their kill files. It's
that simple; you WILL end up loosing in the end if it's Perl you really
want to learn.

You might want to consider asking yourself which thing you want to do
the most in c.l.p.m: establish your "rights" or learn Perl? ;-) If you
choose "learning Perl," then even though you might have to overlook some
"attitudes" here and there, I can guarantee you you'll be learning from
the best in this NG. (Most of the time, I lurk and learn myself even
though I've been doing this for a while.)

Anyway, try Ctrl/D, champ...

Uhh... Ctrl/Z is what I meant. (Which I see you already found.)

-ceo