error logs...

[John ©]

"John ©" <[email protected]> wrote in message

Wow. I didn't think it would be that big a deal. Let it go. Sorry that my
posting here caused such grief ... funny how although you thought you were
helpful, someone else named you a 'bully'. But that's beside the point, I
should have counted to ten before I posted that line (GUIDELINES).

But again, sorry I was rude with my ignorance. It won't happen again.

Cheers,
John

 

[John ©]

Usenet newsgroups (and for that matter, Usenet itself) have characteristics
that meet many of the anthropological criteria for cultures. When visiting
a foreign culture, it is normally considered necessary to make at least
some effort to familiarize oneself with it. For example, an American who
visits England and is surprised, or worse, indignant to find out that
people drive on the left side of the road hasn't put in that effort. There
is a stereotype that says that most Americans behave that way (we mostly
don't but the squeaky wheel gets the grease) and in fact it has a name: the
"ugly American." You're showing some signs of it.

Usenet is a culture? Sorry if I didn't realize that looking up something on
my own personal computer was actually taking me (and it seems invading)
another culture. Is there an embassy here where I can find sanctuary?

I like the England analogy, unfortunately I am not in England, I am in my
house. Didn't think my computer was to be treated like another country.

I am not trying to be rude, nor am I trying to get people upset, but I feel
the attacks are unnecessary. Like I said, I was not one person doing it a
thousand times, I was one of the thousands of people who did it once.

But whatever, I am not going to argue anymore, I understand I didn't follow
the guidelines (not rules mind you) and I am sorry for that. The only thing
that bothers me is when people would rather berate than help. Would you
smack a newborn in the head for not knowing how to talk right out of the
womb? (There's an analogy for you).

So again, sorry that I caused such pain. I'll walk the straight and narrow
from now on and hopefully I won't step on any toes... and if it's too late
for me, don't hold it against any other Americans.

Cheers,
John

 

[John ©]

Yes, I must confess, that I tend to assume that people who come here
and behave this way are Americans.

'behave this way'? Exactly what way was I behaving... all I did was ask for
people not to be rude. Is that such a crime?

So I'll add you to my list of people I am sorry to. Sorry that I may have
offended you with my ignorant actions here. I am truly sorry. I'll try to be
better.

Cheers,
John

 

[Eric Bohlman]

'behave this way'? Exactly what way was I behaving... all I did was
ask for people not to be rude. Is that such a crime?

But you're interpreting the customs of the foreign culture into which
you've inserted yourself as "rudeness," and asking foreigners to change
their customs simply to accommodate you is what's rude (it's the basis of
the "ugly American" stereotype; note that I'm American myself).

For example, in most European societies people will *not* ordinarily
address a person by his first name unless they have a *very* close
(familial, intimate, or long-term friendship) relationship with him.
Americans visiting Europe often misinterpret that as "rudeness" or
"snobbery." But it would be rude and snobbish to complain about that.

 

[Peter Hickman]

Usenet is a culture? Sorry if I didn't realize that looking up something on
my own personal computer was actually taking me (and it seems invading)
another culture.

So you think that the whole of the Internet lives inside your computer?
Are there little people inside your television set?
A culture is formed by a community of people, it doesn't have to be another country.

I like the England analogy, unfortunately I am not in England, I am in my
house. Didn't think my computer was to be treated like another country.

What it connects to is another community.

I am not trying to be rude, nor am I trying to get people upset, but I feel
the attacks are unnecessary. Like I said, I was not one person doing it a
thousand times, I was one of the thousands of people who did it once.

If I punched you in the face a thousand times you would be annoyed but you
wouldn't be annoyed if you were punched in the face by a thousand different people?

Quit whining about how unfairly you have been treated.

 

[John ©]

So you think that the whole of the Internet lives inside your computer?
Are there little people inside your television set?
A culture is formed by a community of people, it doesn't have to be another

country.

I don't offend people by watching my television.

If I punched you in the face a thousand times you would be annoyed but you
wouldn't be annoyed if you were punched in the face by a thousand different

people?

First of all, lmao at the insinuation... but I didn't know posting was
punching you in the face, but if someone did punch me in the face once
(after 999 different people did before him, I wouldn't yell at the 1000th
person like he punched me 1000 times). How about this, if one person asked
you for directions to Main St. a thousand times, you would get annoyed...
but if 1000 different people asked you where Main St. was, would you treat
the 1000th person like he asked you 1000 times? Funny that you compare a
post to being punched. If it's that bad, you shouldn't read here.

Quit whining about how unfairly you have been treated.

Maybe you should end your holier-than-thou attitude and quit your whining
about a silly post. Think about it, all I asked was for the rude people not
to be rude. Do you consider yourself rude? If the answer was no, then it
didn't apply to you. Let it go man.

You're way too wound up, you need to unplug.

And please stop touting yourself as the king of this 'culture'. I am sure a
lot more people didn't even think twice about my little disclaimer than did.
So I don't know why you are getting all bent out of shape.

Cheers,
John

 

[John ©]

But you're interpreting the customs of the foreign culture into which
you've inserted yourself as "rudeness," and asking foreigners to change
their customs simply to accommodate you is what's rude (it's the basis of
the "ugly American" stereotype; note that I'm American myself).

For example, in most European societies people will *not* ordinarily
address a person by his first name unless they have a *very* close
(familial, intimate, or long-term friendship) relationship with him.
Americans visiting Europe often misinterpret that as "rudeness" or
"snobbery." But it would be rude and snobbish to complain about that.

Honestly, I think there is a universal agreement on certain things that can
be considered rude and all I asked was respondents not to be that.

The silly analogies have got to go. Yeah, sure some things of other cultures
might be strange to outsiders, but that is to be accepted. And someone
calling me by my surname doesn't seem rude to me.

And I have no idea how this became an American thing. That's just crazy
talk.

Cheers,
John

 

[Peter Hickman]

And please stop touting yourself as the king of this 'culture'.

And where did you read that, it certainly wasn't in one of my posts.

 

[John ©]

And where did you read that, it certainly wasn't in one of my posts.

You're making posts like you know what everyone here wants or what is best
for everyone here, which has you coming off as the king.


Cheers,
John

 

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

You're making posts like you know what everyone here wants or what
is best for everyone here, which has you coming off as the king.

Peter tried to explain some fundamentals about Usenet in general and
this group in particular. He did it pretty well as far as I can tell.

The consensus of this group is documented:
http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html

 

[Paul Lalli]

Honestly, I think there is a universal agreement on certain things that can ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
be considered rude and all I asked was respondents not to be that.

Can you honestly not tell from the annoyingly large number of posts to
this thread that the universal agreement is that *you* are the one who was
rude?

Paul Lalli

 

[Paul Lalli]

You're making posts like you know what everyone here wants or what is best
for everyone here, which has you coming off as the king.

He's been here a hell of a lot longer than you. It therefore stands to
reason that he knows a hell of a lot better than you what the majority of
people "want", how the majority of people would prefer we all behave
ourselves. For proof that he knows what he's talking about, read the
Posting Guidelines again. He's pretty much echoing them. They're the
standard, the documentation if you will. You are the one who is ignorant
of the customs of this 'culture'. You are therefore the one who should
adapt. Ignorance in and of itself is not a bad thing. Refusal to adapt
after being led away from the ignorance by being informed is.

Paul Lalli

 

[Peter Hickman]

You're making posts like you know what everyone here wants or what is best
for everyone here, which has you coming off as the king.

No, I'm posting as someone who's been here a very long time. And one thing that
many years of being on Usenet has taught me is that people who can't take the
culture spend most of their time trying to blame everybody else for the response
they got.

The ones who will be here for a long time say something like "sorry, I didn't
know that" and we all get on with the real business.

You've been spending your energy telling us what we have been doing wrong.

Look back a few weeks through the archives and see how well Player fared. Player
like yourself started out by telling us what we were doing wrong. That went down
well. But you should also note that in that time other newbies made similar
mistakes but being more adult (or at least more mature) in their behaviour said
something along the lines of "sorry, I didn't know that" and we all moved on.

Player has made a name for himself and very few people will ever take a post
from him seriously for quite some time (I suspect that he has gone, or at least
not posted since the 12th). You seem to be heading the same way, you haven't got
there yet but it could be soon.

 

[John ©]

can
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Can you honestly not tell from the annoyingly large number of posts to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
this thread that the universal agreement is that *you* are the one who was
rude?

Paul Lalli

Wow, so I guess you and three other people make up the whole 'culture',
because that's where the posts are coming from. You few know-it-alls are
the ones annoyed... if no one would have commented on it, I wouldn't have
written back... but you can't let it go and feel the need to constantly
write back.

So you mean to tell me asking people to be nice is in fact being rude?
Explain that one? And try to do it without some analogy of invading a
culture, or getting punched, or driving on the left side. Is asking people
to be nice wrong?

Cheers,
John

 

[John ©]

He's been here a hell of a lot longer than you. It therefore stands to
reason that he knows a hell of a lot better than you what the majority of
people "want", how the majority of people would prefer we all behave
ourselves. For proof that he knows what he's talking about, read the
Posting Guidelines again. He's pretty much echoing them. They're the
standard, the documentation if you will. You are the one who is ignorant
of the customs of this 'culture'. You are therefore the one who should
adapt. Ignorance in and of itself is not a bad thing. Refusal to adapt
after being led away from the ignorance by being informed is.

Paul Lalli

I find your tone to be rude, but I guess that's just me. Let it go man.

Cheers,
John

 

[John ©]

No, I'm posting as someone who's been here a very long time. And one thing that
many years of being on Usenet has taught me is that people who can't take the
culture spend most of their time trying to blame everybody else for the response
they got.

The ones who will be here for a long time say something like "sorry, I didn't
know that" and we all get on with the real business.

You've been spending your energy telling us what we have been doing wrong.

Look back a few weeks through the archives and see how well Player fared. Player
like yourself started out by telling us what we were doing wrong. That went down
well. But you should also note that in that time other newbies made similar
mistakes but being more adult (or at least more mature) in their behaviour said
something along the lines of "sorry, I didn't know that" and we all moved on.

Player has made a name for himself and very few people will ever take a post
from him seriously for quite some time (I suspect that he has gone, or at least
not posted since the 12th). You seem to be heading the same way, you haven't got
there yet but it could be soon.

I am not trying to tell anyone what they are doing is wrong or attempting to
change your culture. Did you even read my first post? I basically ASKED for
people to be nice. And in the one post that I was referring to, the person
that responded to me was categorized a 'bully' by someone else. So at least
I have one person that agrees with me. You guys are like the gestapo of
this culture. I have had a lot of experience with a bunch of different
groups, and I can say without doubt, that there is definitely something
wrong over here. I can't see why you are getting so upset because I asked
people to not be rude.

But then you've been here forever, so I guess that makes you right. Saddam
was around forever as well as Castro, so I guess they were always right too.

Some people just gave their help, I thanked them and went on my way... you
keep bringing things up that I feel forced to respond to. Trust me, I would
have been gone a long time ago had this not continued.

And now I am sure the thought police will come again and give comments about
ugly Americans. Oh well, what can you do.

Cheers,
John

 

[Jürgen Exner]

Wow, so I guess you and three other people make up the whole
'culture', because that's where the posts are coming from. You few
know-it-alls are the ones annoyed... if no one would have commented
on it, I wouldn't have written back... but you can't let it go and
feel the need to constantly write back.

So you mean to tell me asking people to be nice is in fact being rude?
Explain that one? And try to do it without some analogy of invading a
culture, or getting punched, or driving on the left side. Is asking
people to be nice wrong?

Then why aren't you "nice" to begin with? Why did you violate the
established rules of Usenet?

***PLONK***

jue

 

[John ©]

***PLONK***

jue

I am very nice. It's a pleasure to meet you!

Cheers,
John

 

[Keith Keller]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Wow, so I guess you and three other people make up the whole 'culture',
because that's where the posts are coming from.

No, just that those three people aren't completely sick of you by
now.

So you mean to tell me asking people to be nice is in fact being rude?

If you don't want to be directed to the Perl documentation, you
can always get ''help'' from Purl Gurl. (When she's not busy gathering
information on the Perl Mafia, that is.)

- --keith

- --
(e-mail address removed)-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFA4OQuhVcNCxZ5ID8RAn65AJ9ftggdbWVtvEebYO2vLGku6K1WQQCfUo0e
q2GB9b4yOdi9lrW7HNfyrk4=
=83Ie
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

[Peter Hickman]

But then you've been here forever, so I guess that makes you right. Saddam
was around forever as well as Castro, so I guess they were always right too.

Having been here a long time means that I have observed the culture. I have seen
what approaches work and what result in rejection. When you go to a new place it
makes sense to get directions from someone who knows the place, rather than tell
them they are doing it all wrong.

Where I live we have many car, bike and bicycle rallies. I would tell anyone
wanting to visit Brighton to avoid those days. You don't need to understand why
we have some many rallies that end up in this town (indeed I'm not too sure
myself) and you don't even have to approve but it would make sense to heed what
is said rather than tell us all that we should behave differently because our
current culture is inconvenient to you.

By the way, your next step to pariah-hood is the obligatory Hitler reference.