Larry Wall & Cults

[Reynir Stefánsson]

So spake red floyd:

Let the editor flame wars begin!

Get gv im!www.vim.org

In that case, I'll make a word for the microEmacs line. I very much
like MEWIN (a Windows 3.1 version of, I think, me311). It even has
user-definable newlines.

 

[Steve O'Hara-Smith]

Let the editor flame wars begin!

Get gvim! www.vim.org

Wordstar 3.3 of course.

 

[=?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?=]

WordPerfect PE or later ED. No longer sold, AFAIK.

Office68. Look for an LPROM on ebay.

 

[jmfbahciv]

+---------------
| $ telnet xahlee.org 80;
| Trying 208.186.130.4...
| Connected to xahlee.org.
| Escape character is '^]'.
| GET / HTTP/1.1
|
| HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
| Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:35:52 GMT
| Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Fedora)
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+---------------

So are you complaining about the fact that his hosting provider
preloaded RedHat Fedora with Apache 2.0 for him?

There is no shortage of Windows-based hosting companies, so why
didn't he go there ? Whatever your opinions, it's best to put
your money where your mouth is if you expect to be taken
seriously.

Windows (MS) is not 'Unixism'?

Good bitgod, no. AAMOF, Windows would be much improved if
it cut off its balls.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

 

[jmfbahciv]

+---------------
| >... and / as path separator still screws up most of their cmd line
| >programs (which think / is for command line options).
| >Microsoft probably thought avoiding compatibility is a good idea, and
| >have only lately started to have some regrets...
|
| Wrong. The / was chosen as the command line option separator because
| whoever wrote MSDOS was looking to CP/M, who modelled their commands
| after a PDP-11 operating system (RT-11?).
+---------------

Which, like PS/8 & OS-8 [and "DECsystem-8" from Geordia Tech] for the
PDP-8, modelled the command syntax after that of the venerable PDP-10!!

You'ld probably get further about who's on first by knowing that
the guy who did OS-8 also did TOPS-10 monitor work. It was not
unusual for one guy to work on all architectures within DEC.
If he liked to use TECO, he'd carry it over to the next project
and write it up in that computer's machine language. An even
easier way to transfer functionality back then was to use
a cross-assembler. For instance, I'd enter a programmer's PDP-11
code and put it into a file on the TOPS-10 system. Then after
a fast assembler check with the cross-assembler of the coder's
choice, I would either punch the ASCII out of papertape or
run FILEX which would transfer the PDP-10 bits onto the DECtape
in PDP-11 format.

That's how code migrated in the olden days.

+---------------
| Consider the "PIP" command.
+---------------

Indeed. And COPY & DEL & DIR, etc.

Well, not quite . COPY and DELETE called PIP via a CCL
command. DIRECT became its own program. To do a directory
using PIP required a switch and wasn't a monitor level
command.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

 

[jmfbahciv]

Let the editor flame wars begin!

Get gvim! www.vim.org

You think notepad is an editor? <snort> You must be young
and inexperienced in the ways of Real Man's Editing sports.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

 

[Alan J. Flavell]

You'ld probably get further about who's on first by knowing that
the guy who did OS-8 also did TOPS-10 monitor work.

I have here my manual of the "Cambridge Multiple-Access System -
User's Reference Manual" (that's Cambridge, England) dated 1968. The
file system hierarchy separator is "/".

I don't know where -they- got the convention from in the first place,
admittedly.

ObPDP: the TITAN system had a PDP7 as a peripheral device, sort-of.

 

[Steve Holden]

You think notepad is an editor? <snort> You must be young
and inexperienced in the ways of Real Man's Editing sports.

My choice? Definitely TECO, a real programmable editor from the TOPS10 days.

It would create a file if invoked by the "make" command. If you typed
"make love" it would respond with "...not war?" before beginning the edit.

regards
Steve

 

[Steve Holden]

"Cautionary tale"???? Cautionary tale, my arse.

The post was the fuckwitted ramblings of a total raving looney; kill the
thread (and the original poster) and forget about it.

Snicker. Definitely the most sensible suggestion I've seen so far.

regards
Steve

 

[joe]

My choice? Definitely TECO, a real programmable editor from the
TOPS10 days.

It would create a file if invoked by the "make" command. If you
typed "make love" it would respond with "...not war?" before
beginning the edit.

But can it quote Zippy the Pinhead?

Joe

 

[=?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?=]

Snicker. Definitely the most sensible suggestion I've seen so far.

That would of course make it a cautionary tale.

 

[Stan Barr]

Anyone else remember Blackbeard?

Strangely enough I came across a floppy with that on yesterday...
(I've been sorting out my old 5.25-inch floppies with a view to archiving
them all on a spare hard disk...)

I use BBEdit, but you need a Mac for that

--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb .at. dial .dot. pipex .dot. com
(Remove any digits from the addresses when mailing me.)

The future was never like this!

 

[SM Ryan]

(e-mail address removed) (Rob Warnock) wrote:
# +---------------
# | >... and / as path separator still screws up most of their cmd line
# | >programs (which think / is for command line options).
# | >Microsoft probably thought avoiding compatibility is a good idea, and
# | >have only lately started to have some regrets...
# |
# | Wrong. The / was chosen as the command line option separator because
# | whoever wrote MSDOS was looking to CP/M, who modelled their commands
# | after a PDP-11 operating system (RT-11?).
# +---------------
#
# Which, like PS/8 & OS-8 [and "DECsystem-8" from Geordia Tech] for the
# PDP-8, modelled the command syntax after that of the venerable PDP-10!!

There's a story about why railroad tracks are spaced the way they are.

Dig deep enough and traces of old DEC, IBM, CDC, Honeywell, and Burroughs
can still be found.

 

[Charlie Gibbs]

At least PIP would copy zero-length files.

Except, of course, that it was useless, because 99% of programs did
their own option parsing, and still do. The hidden option only lasted
one .1 subrelease, as I recall.

Yes, my programs indeed do their own parsing. And they insist on
"-", no matter which OS they're running on.

...which is /one/ thing that the FLOSS community can honestly thank them
for.

Now, do you trust Microsoft to keep it that way? I don't. That's why
my programs are full of things like:

#ifdef DOSWIN
strcat (filespec, "\\");
#else
strcat (filespec, "/");
#endif

Yes, it's bulky and ugly. But it's also future-proof.

 

[Charlie Gibbs]

You think notepad is an editor? <snort> You must be young
and inexperienced in the ways of Real Man's Editing sports.

I'll give up CygnusEd (and the Amiga it runs on) when they
pry it from my cold dead fingers.

 

[510046470588-0001]

Let the editor flame wars begin!

Get gvim! www.vim.org

none of those can hold the dimmest candle to the GNU Emacs.

Klaus Schilling

 

[Brian {Hamilton Kelly}]

On Wednesday, in article
<[email protected]>
(e-mail address removed) "SM Ryan"

There's a story about why railroad tracks are spaced the way they are.

Is this the one about two Roman horses' arses? If so, it also accounts
for the physical dimensions of the Space Shuttle's boosters.

 

[Rich Teer]

X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

Well said, that man! (Here, HTML messages are bounced by my
mail server, so I don't even see 'em...)

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, author of "Solaris Systems Programming",
published in August 2004.

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich

 

[Brian Inglis]

'unixism' has nothing to do with *using* UNIX. ...
only those people who use UNIXes are affected by 'unixism'

Sorry, I don't see how an activity can be affected by something that has
nothing to do with that activity.

Are you suggesting that Unix users don't have to deal with unixism? If
that were so, why would Xah Lee have such a bee in his bonnet about it? [2]

Xah Lee says "unix should mean unixism, the way things are done in unix
platform" [1]

Xah Lee also says "the unix shells ... is one giant unpurgeable shit
pile arose from ad hoc hacks of unixism." [2]

It seems legit to wonder why he chooses to place his web-pages amongst
shit piles.

ISTM that the criticism was better expressed by PDP-10ers in the "Unix
Hater's Handbook", available online. For further thoughts, read plan 9
documents, to see where the original implementors agree.

OTOH there's the other OSes that crash, crawl, or just get in the way
of getting work done because you've got to do it their way or else!
Feel free to use them instead, and be prepared to pay thru the nose.

If you don't like some standard Unix OS feature, there's probably
another one out there based on every system which ever existed to
download, or you could write your own.
If you don't like a standard Unix shell, there's probably another one
out there based on every system which ever existed to download, or you
could write your own.
If you don't like a standard Unix editor, there's probably another one
out there based on every system which ever existed to download, or you
could write your own.
etc...

 

[Brian Inglis]

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:36:14 -0500 in alt.folklore.computers,

+---------------
| >... and / as path separator still screws up most of their cmd line
| >programs (which think / is for command line options).
| >Microsoft probably thought avoiding compatibility is a good idea, and
| >have only lately started to have some regrets...
|
| Wrong. The / was chosen as the command line option separator because
| whoever wrote MSDOS was looking to CP/M, who modelled their commands
| after a PDP-11 operating system (RT-11?).
+---------------

Which, like PS/8 & OS-8 [and "DECsystem-8" from Geordia Tech] for the
PDP-8, modelled the command syntax after that of the venerable PDP-10!!

+---------------
| Consider the "PIP" command.
+---------------

Indeed. And COPY & DEL & DIR, etc.

But CP/M also derived from IBM VM CP(!) and CMS:

mount a ...
attach con/rdr/lst/pun ...

It's been too long!