[OT] Indian C programmers and "u"

F

Floyd Davidson

CBFalconer said:
Floyd said:
Arthur J. O'Dwyer said:
Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
... snip ...
"Good" (as a modifier) is an adjective; while "well" (as a
modifier) is an adverb.
... snip ...
quick trip to "www.google.com" reinforces Morris'[0] statements.

Why not try a dictionary rather than a web search engine. What
did you do, click on the "I'm feeling lucky" button, and weren't?

Websters Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary (American, 1994):

good: ......
--usage. 49. In the speech and writing of educated people, good
is rarely encountered as an adverb. _He did well_ (not _good_) _on
the test_. _She sees well_ (not _good_) _with her new glasses_.
Some confusion arises because well can be an adjective too,
meaning "healthy", and is the proper word to use after _feel_: _I
feel well_ (not _good_) _today_.

----- end quote -----

So you see, it *is* an adverb. And even educated people use it
on rare occasions.

Nobody has denied that many references depreciate that usage;
just as there are even more which don't!
However, the phrase "I feel good" expresses not wellness, but
self-pleasure IMO. It is a truncation of "I feel good about
something".

Clearly there is a reason to use "good" as opposed to "well" if
that is what is meant.

I think, now that you've finally looked it up (after how many
posts denying it), that you'll find it is listed as an adverb in
about 3/4ths of all dictionaries.
 
S

Slartibartfast

Let's check the dictionary:

Main Entry: zillion
Function: noun
Etymology: z + -illion (as in million)
Date: 1934
: an indeterminately large number <zillions of mosquitoes>

Main Entry: nope
Function: adverb
Etymology: by alteration
Date: 1888
: NO

No mention of any slang or other strings attached to these words, so
why would they be inappropriate in an informal communication medium like
the Usenet? I can't see where my personal preferences enter into the
picture, so please enlighten me.

Firstly let's look in a few other places:

OED
---

nope
interjection
no: used to indicate a negative response in order to refuse, deny,
or
disagree with something (slang)
[Late 19th century. Alteration of no (probably reflecting the sound
of the
lips' closure after an emphatic pronunciation of the word).]

Cambridge Dictionary
--------------------

Definition
nope
adverb SLANG
no


....I could go on but what's the point.

Secondly I have never suggested that your (or anybody else's) use of
slang terms is inappropriate.

As I said previously I have merely observed the hypocrisy of those who
flame others for doing what they themselves do all the time. And the
grounds for the flames? Nothing more than using terms not selected
from some arbitrary preferred set - the flamer's own personal
preferences, in fact.
 
A

Alan Balmer

49. In the speech and writing of educated people, good
is rarely encountered as an adverb

And there we have it. Floyd Davidson need only claim to be uneducated,
and we can drop this discussion.
 
A

Alan Balmer

Well I herby propose taking away Indias nukes. And Pakistan and Russias,
and the US and Frances. And take them from anyone else that happens to
have nukes too.

Do you really have room in your basement for all that?

Seriously, who gets to take them away? What do you do with them then?
What do you do when other countries realize that you've provided them
with an excellent opportunity to develop and deploy their own without
fear of reprisal in kind?
 
A

Alan Balmer

It is well known
that Japan was on the point of surrender when the bombs fell.

An odd statement. I happen to know a Japanese anti-nuclear campaigner
who lost relatives at Hiroshima, and even he doesn't claim that.

Even *after* the bombs, the top Japanese military didn't want to
surrender.
 
A

Alan Balmer

In part. Given a0b, it could be a0b, a00b, a000b, a0b0, a0b00, and so on.


Tha Hindus and the Mayans used it purely positional (in *all* positions);
the Babylonians did not.

My remembrance (and keep in mind that my history of mathematics course
was *many* years ago) is that the Babylonians used it "in absentia"
for commerce - that is, they often left a blank space in a number to
save writing the zero, but that it was usually used in all positions
for scientific writings.

I wonder if that was because scientists had more spare time for
writing, or were paid enough to hire scribes? <g>
 
A

Alan Balmer

Please read <http://ubmail.ubalt.edu/~harsham/zero/ZERO.HTM>
IIRC, it seems to be updated after my rant at sci.math

An amusing read (I only read a few pages), but hardly an authoritative
reference. The author apparently doesn't understand Cantor's work on
infinities, and presents some amusing arguments about a non-problem
("division" by zero), but the only reference to the origin of zero is
an off-hand, unsubstantiated statement.
 
D

Dan Pop

In said:
20-20 or better. I would be quite happy if most of the
applications of fission had never been discovered, but Pandora has
been here.

You may also want to consider the indirect applications. Almost all the
radioactive isotopes used for medical purposes are produced using a
nuclear reactor as a very powerful (and free) source of neutrons. It is
quite expensive to generate an equivalent neutron flux using other
means.

Dan
 
D

Dan Pop

In said:
[email protected] (Dan Pop) wrote in message news: said:
Let's check the dictionary:

Main Entry: zillion
Function: noun
Etymology: z + -illion (as in million)
Date: 1934
: an indeterminately large number <zillions of mosquitoes>

Main Entry: nope
Function: adverb
Etymology: by alteration
Date: 1888
: NO

No mention of any slang or other strings attached to these words, so
why would they be inappropriate in an informal communication medium like
the Usenet? I can't see where my personal preferences enter into the
picture, so please enlighten me.

Firstly let's look in a few other places:

OED
---

nope
interjection
no: used to indicate a negative response in order to refuse, deny,
or
disagree with something (slang)
[Late 19th century. Alteration of no (probably reflecting the sound
of the
lips' closure after an emphatic pronunciation of the word).]

Cambridge Dictionary
--------------------

Definition
nope
adverb SLANG
no


...I could go on but what's the point.

The point is that there is no consensus on the issue.
What one dictionary considers slang, other considers normal usage. Which
is unsurprising, considering the differences between British English and
American English (my quotes are from the Web interface of the
Merriam-Webster).

Now, find a single well reputed dictionary describing "u" as a normal
alternative to "you" and you may have a valid point.

Dan
 
I

I.M.A Troll

Dik T. Winter wrote:
ll.
But in most cases the word has pejorative connotations. Like "deze
film is klote" (this films is baaaaaad). (No, we do not have regulations
similar to FCC about words that can not be uttered on television...)

No need for them; the Dutch never speak profanely.
 
G

gokrix

Dik T. Winter said:
Overhere the word has a meaning. It is a slang term for "testicle",
derived from older meanings. The older meaning is still present in the
sport "kloot schieten" (shoot at kloten), where kloot simply means ball.
But in most cases the word has pejorative connotations. Like "deze
film is klote" (this films is baaaaaad). (No, we do not have regulations
similar to FCC about words that can not be uttered on television...)

Well, it was not my intention to call Joona a testicle. I just wanted
something that _sounded_ sufficiently derogatory, without actually
being so.

Thanks,
--GS
 
C

Christian Bau

Floyd Davidson said:
I think you are really stretching the limit of credibility.
Just how ridiculous do you want to get? That approaches one of
the most absurd weasel efforts I've ever seen anyone try on
Usenet.

You quoted just six words without any context. From the six words you
quoted, my conclusion was quite reasonable.

But now why you are completely wrong: The page you quote does actually
say that "good" is sometimes used as an adverb, that there are quite
strong feelings that it is wrong, and that therefore using "good" as an
adverb has a different meaning than "well". There are examples given,
and in these examples "good" is used intentionally to achieve some
effect.

In the sentence that started this discussion, there was no intention to
use a different meaning. It was just a bloody mistake.
 
C

Christian Bau

Floyd Davidson said:
Clearly there is a reason to use "good" as opposed to "well" if
that is what is meant.

In "I feel good" good is not an adverb. It doesn't mean "my sense of
touch is in excellent working condition". Same as in

I look good
vs.
I see well

Being able to quote dictionaries doesn't mean you understand anything.
 
D

Dik T. Winter

> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:00:21 GMT, "Dik T. Winter" <[email protected]>
> wrote: ....
>
> My remembrance (and keep in mind that my history of mathematics course
> was *many* years ago) is that the Babylonians used it "in absentia"
> for commerce - that is, they often left a blank space in a number to
> save writing the zero, but that it was usually used in all positions
> for scientific writings.

This is partly correct. The zero was never written at the end of a number,
nor at the beginning (think fractions). Also two successive zeros were not
written. So 1.0.1 could be 3601, 216001, 12960001, 216060, 1296060,
12963600, etc., and also a host of fractions. In almost all cases the
actual value can be inferred from context.
 
D

Dik T. Winter

> Dik T. Winter wrote:
> ll.
>
> No need for them; the Dutch never speak profanely.

You must have met some pretty non-standard Dutch. I still remember the
outcry back in the sixties when a television program aired where a poem
was read with in it the word "neuken" (Dutch for (FCC): f*ck). However
this was soon dwarfed by the showing (on public television) of a nude
woman. The first real curse must have been quite a bit earlier. And in
the nineties we got to see some real pornography on television. The first
nude woman in an advertisement was in the late nineties on a poster in
almost all bus shelters (it was an advertisement for safe sex).
 
C

CBFalconer

Dan said:
You may also want to consider the indirect applications. Almost
all the radioactive isotopes used for medical purposes are
produced using a nuclear reactor as a very powerful (and free)
source of neutrons. It is quite expensive to generate an
equivalent neutron flux using other means.

Agreed. Note the cavilling word "most", which is probably a
misnomer anyhow. The phrase "silly way to boil water" comes to
mind. I spend many years instrumenting experiments at Chalk
River, using NRX and NRU, and many more engineering commercial
nucleonics. The biggest excitement was a pig that fell apart and
spilled 15 curies of Co60. I left rapidly.
 
F

Floyd Davidson

At this point we've seen several dictionary entries that *clearly*
prove "good" is indeed an adverb.

We've also noted that "well" might indeed be an adverb, but it does
not have precisely the same connotation as "good" when used as an
adverb.

Clearly:

Mark McIntyre, who called me an "idiot" for that usage, is
the idiot in regard to this subject.

Arthur J. O'Dwyer, was incorrect to say, "No need to go all
ungrammatical".

CBFalconer errored when he said it was "illustrating misuse
of the language".

Alan Balmer blew it totally in saying "it's a classic mistake".

Christian Bau went absolutely ballistic and even claimed I
was reading the quotes from a dictionary wrong.

Quite a list of people who *should* have known enough to look it
up *before* claiming they were authoritative.
You quoted just six words without any context. From the six words you
quoted, my conclusion was quite reasonable.

That is the standard format for dictionary entries, and
assuming it to be something else doesn't come close to "quite
reasonable". From the six words I quoted, your conclusion was
abjectly ridiculous.

Each time you post one of these gross errors you end up having
to weasel in some manner like the above to excuse what you said
that last time.

Why don't you just accept the simple fact that the sentence
construction used was indeed grammatically correct English. The
list of folks above that suckered up on it is just amazing,
considering how easy it is to look the word up in a dictionary
before posting a claim that it can't be what it is.
But now why you are completely wrong: The page you quote does actually
say that "good" is sometimes used as an adverb, that there are quite
strong feelings that it is wrong, and that therefore using "good" as an

It does not say that it is /wrong/ to use the word as an adverb.

What is it with you and reading dictionaries? When they don't
say what you were looking for, you just manufacture a claim that
they meant it anyway, regardless.
adverb has a different meaning than "well". There are examples given,

Now, in addition to arguing that the dictionary didn't mean what
it says, you are going to tell me I didn't say what I meant to
say???

Go back and read the post where *I* used it. *I* meant what I said.
I sure as Hell didn't ask you what I what I wanted said... and the
only hint you have as to what the sentence meant, is what it said!

I made a statement, and the argument against it was that "good"
is not an adverb so I should have used "well" instead because it
is an adverb. It has been conclusively demonstrated beyond any
shadow of a doubt that "good" is indeed useful as an adverb.

So now you have the audacity to say I didn't mean "good" and
instead should have used "well" because that is what I meant,
even if it was grammatically correct. Astounding. Simply
astounding.
and in these examples "good" is used intentionally to achieve some
effect.

When I used the word, you can trust that I intended it to
achieve an effect!
In the sentence that started this discussion, there was no intention to
use a different meaning. It was just a bloody mistake.

Oh buzz off with that silly crap, will you. *I* wrote the
sentence. It meant *exactly* what it said.

You've not done so well in this thread Christian. First you claim
"good" is not an adverb. They you claim the quote from a dictionary
means the opposite of what it says. They you claim a dictionary
says something it doesn't.

Now you've got nothing left but to say that *I* made a mistake
by not saying what I meant.

The fact is, nothing you've been saying means much of anything.
 
F

Floyd Davidson

Christian Bau said:
In "I feel good" good is not an adverb. It doesn't mean "my sense of
touch is in excellent working condition". Same as in

I look good
vs.
I see well

Being able to quote dictionaries doesn't mean you understand anything.

Nothing you've just said has a connection with anything either
CBFalconer or myself said in the article you quoted.

Regardless, you've used it as an adverb and called it an
adjective.

John looks good. adverb
John is good. adjective

The first "good" modifies the verb, "looks". The second "good"
modifies the subject noun, "john". See the difference?
 
F

Floyd Davidson

Alan Balmer said:
And there we have it. Floyd Davidson need only claim to be uneducated,
and we can drop this discussion.

Apparently you cannot read. If I rarely use it, then I'm
educated?

It's a fact, I rarely use it.

You apparently don't use it at all, so I assume we can deduct
from the above quoted statement that you are not at all
educated? Do you see what silliness with logic can get you?

What that said was, it *is* usable as an adverb, and you can
squirm all day about that, but Usenet *is* an informal context
where vernacular and colloquialisms are the norm.
 

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