OT: Will non net-neutrality kill the internet?

[John Kelly]

The Bible also shares several books with the Koran. All three religions
Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all from the same root and book.

God abandoned the nation of Israel when they rejected Jesus as the
Messiah. Today, Israel is just another country, with no special status
before God.

Islam too, is yet another false religion.

However it is arrogance beyond belief for any human to claim to know the
mind of God.

You don't need to know his mind. You just need to do what he says.

 

[BGB / cr88192]

The Bible also shares several books with the Koran. All three religions
Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all from the same root and book.

However it is arrogance beyond belief for any human to claim to know the
mind of God.

possible, but the idea is that the books were all writen by people under
good authority (divine inspiration and similar), rather than a person simply
passing off their personal opinions as having divine authority.

there is always a certain risk though, and many people who claim such
insight but with it being somewhat in doubt that this is actually the case
(like, all the various David Koresh and similar type people around the
world, ...).

it is also notable that there are many significant differences between the
religions, ...
as well as other branch-religions, which in turn diverge in yet more ways
and make yet more claims (Bahai'i branching off of Islam, or Mormonism off
of Christianity, ...).

so, yeah, it is a bit of an awkward issue...


or such...

 

[s_dubrovich]

Depends on what atheism you're speaking about.

If you're about Soviet atheism - then the real central dogma under it was: "mankind is omnipotent".

Yes, mankind as a whole. Yes, on a very long historical period. But omnipotent.

That is an astounding idea to me. Mankind can't direct its own path
let alone have the wisdom to do so, that is self-evident from
history. A rather arrogant pride is needed to believe that.

I surmise that 'pride' was the original sin behind Satan's controversy
and fall, at least the way I read the Bible accounts.

 

[Seebs]

homosexuals

I know this thread is labled "OT", but really, this is getting insane.

-s

 

[Nick Keighley]

oddly my religious education did extend this far

he seemed to have had a big change in attitude though...

yes, but they are categorized differently, exist in different timeframes,
and have different contents.

it is much the same as how AD and BC are different.

how many years separate BC and AD?

AD is generally the NT timeframe, and BC the OT timeframe.

it is much like how one can divide the OT (or Tanakh) into the Torah
(Pentateuch, or Genesis - Deuteronomy), and the Nevi'im and Ketuvim.

but, no one claims that God himself changed,

really? The NT seems to be remarkable free of human sacrifice (well
only one!), city sacking, slavery, rape, bears eating children...

only that one timeframe ended,
and another began, and in the process that some of the basic rules were
changed.

like, one will have Easter, and another will hold a Seder...

or such...

recognition of the messiah seems a pretty fundamental difference!

 

[Nick Keighley]

Depends on what atheism you're speaking about.

If you're about Soviet atheism - then the real central dogma under it was:
"mankind is omnipotent".

Yes, mankind as a whole. Yes, on a very long historical period. But omnipotent.

That's why the Soviet ideology required no God. The mankind itself will
do everything which - for religious people - the God does. Just in some
later future, when the scientists will make a couple more discoveries.

Science and technical progress were considered to be something like
"omnipotence tools", and thus nearly sacralized in the USSR.

This is what about the Soviet materialism.

As about gays - probably what we are observing now is _dismantling
of all transcendental moral_.

Gays were classically considered immoral due to _transcendental_ reasons. Only due to them.

gays weren't teriibly well treated in yhe Soviet Union (or in modern
Russia either)

 

[Nick Keighley]

however, to be fair, under this interpretation, most liberals and atheists
would also have to keep quiet as well, since they also make transcendental
claims (for example, that gayness and fornication are not immoral or that
socialistic economics is somehow better than capitalistic or laisez-fair
economics,

which liberals and atheists say this?

 

[Nick Keighley]

That is an astounding idea to me.  Mankind can't direct its own path
let alone have the wisdom to do so, that is self-evident from
history.  A rather arrogant pride is needed to believe that.

what I find astounding is a 21st century adult can believe anything
else. Mankinds only guide is mankind. To believe anythign else is
just wishful thinking. Dangerous wishful thinking.

I surmise that 'pride' was the original sin behind Satan's controversy
and fall, at least the way I read the Bible accounts.

it's a fairy story. In the same class as gingerbread cottages and who
Luke Skywalker's father was.


<snip>

 

[Chris H]

So what does that tell you about the church?

To me it says, "false religion."

Both the Anglican and the RC... So we have established that
Christianity is a "false religion".

Christianity is the middle religion of a set of three interlined
religions. Judaism, Christianity and Islam. SO it must call into doubt
the efficacy of the other two as well......

 

[Chris H]

God abandoned the nation of Israel when they rejected Jesus as the
Messiah. Today, Israel is just another country, with no special status
before God.

Islam too, is yet another false religion.

But God says otherwise.

You don't need to know his mind. You just need to do what he says.

However it is man's interpretation of what god says that is the problem.
Even god said that when he sent Mohammed to correct the errors the Jews
and the Christians made with the scriptures.

 

[Chris H]

In message <[email protected]

what I find astounding is a 21st century adult can believe anything
else. Mankinds only guide is mankind. To believe anythign else is
just wishful thinking. Dangerous wishful thinking.

I agree... The only thing Religion has done (pick any religion) is to
cause bloodshed and grief. Normally you get insecure pretty tyrants
setting themselves up as priests and harming their followers. Eg the
Christian Churches. Though the CofE is "mostly Harmless" these days.

it's a fairy story. In the same class as gingerbread cottages and who
Luke Skywalker's father was.

You mean Star Wars is not historically accurate? !!!!!!

Mind you, some people still believe Saving Private Ryan is historically
accurate!

 

[John Kelly]

what I find astounding is a 21st century adult can believe anything
else. Mankinds only guide is mankind

That's what Satan told Eve. "You can ignore God's law and have more
fun!" Where do you think the word "naive" got its start? Don't be nigh
Eve!

it's a fairy story. In the same class as gingerbread cottages and who
Luke Skywalker's father was.

God exists in a dimension not observable to us. God created time. He's
not bounded by it, like we are. Asking what created God is futile. How
He bootsrapped himself is beyond human understanding.

 

[Chris H]

God exists in a dimension not observable to us. God created time. He's
not bounded by it, like we are. Asking what created God is futile. How
He bootsrapped himself is beyond human understanding.

Yet many people will tell you what God says and worse still what God
intended those words to mean.

 

[John Kelly]

Yet many people will tell you what God says and worse still what God
intended those words to mean.

Not understanding everything about God is no excuse for willful
ignorance of His laws and purpose.

 

[Sjouke Burry]

Not understanding everything about God is no excuse for willful
ignorance of His laws and purpose.

Amazing how you can read the mind of a deity.
Where did you learn that?

 

[John Kelly]

John Kelly wrote:

Amazing how you can read the mind of a deity.

Anyone can read the Bible. But few do.

It was penned by men but authored by God. The foolish say "there is no
God"

But if there is no God, then why does the universe exist at all? Why is
there not merely a void of nothingness? Mathematically, is a void of
nothingness more probable than a universe consisting of matter? Can you
devise a proof, or counter proof?

 

[Nick Keighley]

In message <[email protected]

or rather mankind's only guide is men. We can choose good or bad
leaders, good or bad political or social systems. But we have to
*choose*.

I agree...  The only thing Religion has done (pick any religion) is to
cause bloodshed and grief.

I don't happen to agree. Religion has restrained social madness,
preserved social cohesion, given hope, built cathedrals and preserved
knowledge. It's done lots of bad things to.

Normally you get insecure pretty tyrants
setting themselves up as priests and harming their followers.

this often happens but it isn't a law of physics. Much good is done in
the name of religion.

Eg the
Christian Churches.  Though the CofE is "mostly Harmless" these days.

Soviet Russia sometimes get lumped in with religion for this purpose.
I don't happen to agree but the overly strong application of an
ideology can look very like a religion. Some bits of National
Socialism looked *very* like religion (Nuremburg rallies for
instance).

You mean Star Wars is not historically accurate? !!!!!!

Mind you, some people still believe Saving Private Ryan is historically
accurate!

I think some people genuinely can't tell the difference between a
useful or entertaining story and an historical fact.

 

[Nick Keighley]

That's what Satan told Eve.  

no in fact he didn't. Since neither Satan nor Eve ever actually
existed. Good grief. The word "satan" doesn't even appear in Genesis!
You'd think you'd at least know your own mythology...

"You can ignore God's law and have more
fun!"  

cite: Where in the bible does it say that?

Where do you think the word "naive" got its start?

wikipedia:
"Naïve (sometimes spelled naive) is a French loanword (adjective, form
of naïf) indicating having or showing a lack of experience,
understanding or sophistication; in early use, it meant natural or
innocent, and did not connote ineptitude. The dots above the I are
called a diaeresis (see also Ï); the alternative spelling, naive, is
also typically correct."

 Don't be nigh Eve!

do it yourself etomolgy. Does acccess to "a higher truth" gave you
some sort of carte blanche to just make stuff up?

God exists in a dimension not observable to us.  God created time.  He's
not bounded by it, like we are.  Asking what created God is futile.  How
He bootsrapped himself is beyond human understanding.

and what is satan? does he live in your parallel dimension as well? Or
is he a talking snake?

 

[Sjouke Burry]

Anyone can read the Bible. But few do.

It was penned by men but authored by God. The foolish say "there is no
God"

But if there is no God, then why does the universe exist at all? Why is
there not merely a void of nothingness? Mathematically, is a void of
nothingness more probable than a universe consisting of matter? Can you
devise a proof, or counter proof?

In science, you cannot proof non-existence ,not for gods, fairies, or
trolls or ghosts.
The burden of proof works the other way around.
And positive proof is missing.

And in the bible you can find all sorts of contradictionary statements.

Apparently you only read what you fancy.
And claiming to know what your god(if he exists) thinks,
is the ultimate arrogance.

 

[Maxim S. Shatskih]

Soviet Russia sometimes get lumped in with religion for this purpose.

I don't happen to agree but the overly strong application of an
ideology can look very like a religion.

Surely. Marxism-Leninism _was actually a dogmatic religion_ in the USSR - with punisheable heresies, official clergy (called "phylosophers" in the USSR) and so on.

And once again - this was God-less religion, based on the belief of "the human race is omnipotent itself, if we are speaking about long-term and the whole human history". Not only the idea of God, but actually _anything transcendent was cursed by the Soviet ideology_.

For instance, the Soviet system took some effort (in book writing and publishing) to discredit all kind of "urban myths" beliefs like "if the black cat have crossed your road - wait for a mischief".

More modern beliefs like the UFOs, magical powers of the pyramids, magical healers etc were also put under discredit by the Soviet official system (and flourished to huge sizes immediately after the USSR downfall).

As you can understand, there cannot be much _governemental_, "etatistic" interest in such. This is religios dogmatism, plain and simple.

Even the capitalist economy was actually cursed by the Soviets _partly_ due to the belief that it slowers the mankind, lessens its progressive powers and hinders the progress of the mankind to being gods for themselves.

Some bits of National Socialism looked *very* like religion

They hardly have anything like the Soviet Marxism-Leninism "official phylosophers", neither any punishment of the heretics (which the early USSR had plenty).

Mind you, some people still believe Saving Private Ryan is historically
accurate!

Well, Guadalcanal battle is a historical fact.