notifying particular thread to wake up.

[blmblm]

[ snip ]

It was a general statement, expressing a requirement on a form of
behaviour that I (as most people, I would argue) demand to take
someone's points seriously. I might have said "One better ...", but then
again, I was talking to you so. I don't know. As I said, I get the
impression that you feel offended right about the time you read the word
"you".

Point of (US?) English usage:

Saying "You better do X" *does* come across as an order -- "do
X or else!" If the intent is to say that it would be better to
do X .... Well, "it would be better to do X" is fine, or "you
would do better to do X" works too, without the connotation of
order-giving.

I comment on this in part because I have noticed this usage in
people I presume to be non-native speakers -- "you better do X"
in contexts in which I don't think there's any intent to order
anyone around. It doesn't confuse me, particularly, since context
makes it clear, and I've had just enough experience with trying
to speak more than one language to realize how tricky it is to
get everything right in a language one didn't learn as a child,
but it jars a bit.

"For what it's worth", maybe.

[ snip ]

 

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

Saying "You better do X" *does* come across as an order -- "do
X or else!"

Well, in the "do X or else" formulation you have an extry sense of
authority and threat, which I didn't intend.

I *did* however mean it imperatively. It is one of the things that are
not negotiable with me.

I comment on this in part because I have noticed this usage in
people I presume to be non-native speakers -- "you better do X"
in contexts in which I don't think there's any intent to order
anyone around.

Thinking about it more thoroughly, in German we have the exact same
phrase, and it does sound rather rude. Never saw it that way.
I would still use it in this context, but only as a rhetoric device,
stressing that I will not stray from that view.

"For what it's worth", maybe.

No no, it's perfectly allright. These are the subtleties you just don't
get unless thoroughly pointed out to you. Thanks.

So in closing (Twisted): I apologize for the form, but stand firmly by
the content.

/W

 

[blmblm]

Well, in the "do X or else" formulation you have an extry sense of
authority and threat, which I didn't intend.

As I guessed. I have an idea that maybe Twisted interpreted your
words to mean what they'd mean coming from a native speaker -- which
would be peremptory at best, decidedly rude at worst. Whatever.
Cleared up now, maybe.

I *did* however mean it imperatively. It is one of the things that are
not negotiable with me.

I've forgotten now what X was here, but would "you should do X"
or "you should always do X" fit your meaning? neither of those
would come across as an order, in my usage anyway.

[ snip ]

No no, it's perfectly allright. These are the subtleties you just don't
get unless thoroughly pointed out to you. Thanks.

Any time. If I ever decide to try out my extremely rusty and
never very good German here, perhaps you can return the favor.
I'm not sure there's any way to master a human language except
by trying to speak it and having native speakers point out
unidiomatic usages. Come to think of it, that may be sort of
true for computer languages as well -- "code reviews"?

I'm still waiting for a reply from Twisted to the question (in
this thread? another one?) about how many languages he speaks --
or better yet, how many he's attempted to learn. I have yet to
become fluent in anything but English, but my attempts to learn
Spanish and German, many years ago, taught me something about
how difficult it is. Observing (in many contexts, not just here)
the difficulties some non-native speakers have with English has
been equally instructive.

Drifting further and further off-topic, sorry.

[ snip ]

 

[Mike Schilling]

Drifting further and further off-topic, sorry.

Topic? There's a topic?

 

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

I've forgotten now what X was here, but would "you should do X"
or "you should always do X" fit your meaning? neither of those
would come across as an order, in my usage anyway.

Yes and no. It would have been more polite, but less strong than
intended. Which is not to justify my specific wording; that was
unintentionally rude.

Regarding the content:
X = "answer questions and not bluntly evade them"

However, my intention was to say "if you want Y, you must do X" (where Y
= "you want to discuss things and actually get to convincing people of
your opinion")

While it wasn't meant to be an order in the military sense, I *was*
trying to convey a certain necessity, not a recommendation.

If I ever decide to try out my extremely rusty and
never very good German here, perhaps you can return the favor.

There probably won't be much use for your German on this group though .
But sure, gladly.

Drifting further and further off-topic, sorry.

Well, what damage can it do now?

/W

 

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

Topic? There's a topic?

Well, maybe we can notifiy a particular thread to wake up?

(Oh, I slay myself)

/W

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=]

[implied insults deleted]

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

So you think:

# but then graciously
#accepts a correction from someone else more knowledgable on
#the subject.

do match you well ??

Arne

PS: Congrats with your third GG account - do you mind if we abbreviate
it to twerpie ?

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=]

............. No negative opinion of me can be true,

Stated as an axiom, then I would say that statement
is equivalent to "I am nuts".

Arne

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=]

On Nov 6, 3:26 pm, Jernau Gurgeh <[email protected]>
Incorrect. It is never correct to contradict me. Don't do it again.

It is always correct to contradict you when you post some nonsense.

Arne

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=]

Obviously not, liar. If they had been, you would be defending me,
since it is clear to any objective observer that I'm the beleaguered
but valiant defender who was unfairly attacked

The fact that no one seems to share that belief does not make
you wonder ?

Arne

 

[John W. Kennedy]

The usual phrase is "willfully ignorant".

"Invincible ignorance" is a technical term used by Roman Catholic
theologians, and actually means the opposite of this -- ignorance that
cannot be cured by diligence. "Vincible ignorance" is the culpable sort.

 

[John W. Kennedy]

[insults deleted]

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

He's trying to do you a favor. Please seek psychiatric help. Your life
may depend on it.


--
John W. Kennedy
"Though a Rothschild you may be
In your own capacity,
As a Company you've come to utter sorrow--
But the Liquidators say,
'Never mind--you needn't pay,'
So you start another company to-morrow!"
-- Sir William S. Gilbert. "Utopia Limited"

 

[nebulous99]

[insults directed against somebody named Paul deleted]

Leave the poor guy alone -- he's dead, in case you didn't get the memo.

 

[nebulous99]

What was that - a date with you?

No, of course not.

 

[nebulous99]

[implied insult deleted]

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

 

[nebulous99]

On Nov 9, 11:01 am, Andreas Leitgeb <[email protected]>
wrote:
[implied insult deleted]

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

 

[nebulous99]

[nebulous thinks that because one person is alleged to be a bully that
therefore people in general cannot be trusted]

No, that because one person is demonstrably a bully that that person
cannot be trusted.

[several insults deleted]

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

Not every person bullies unless constrained from doing so.

Nope; only the assholes among them. You, for instance.

[large volume of nonsense deleted]

You think Descartes hallucinated?

I never claimed any such thing.

[more nonsense deleted]

I see no need for me (or anyone else) to do that!

Then why did you?

No such behavior can be tolerated.

[insult deleted] lots of strange behaviour can be and is tolerated in this
world.

I'm sorry, but I must reserve the right to be sole arbiter of what I
choose to tolerate and to not tolerate. You don't get to decide that
for me, prick.

[more insults deleted]

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

 

[nebulous99]

On Nov 9, 2:48 pm, Jernau Gurgeh <[email protected]>
wrote:
[insult deleted]

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

 

[nebulous99]

On Nov 9, 4:37 pm, Daniel Pitts
[insults deleted]

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

[threat deleted]

I don't take kindly to people who threaten me.

 

[nebulous99]

On Nov 9, 4:40 pm, Daniel Pitts
[insults deleted]

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.