[OT] Indian C programmers and "u"

[Debashish Chakravarty]

And every single Indian C programmer is complaining about it...

This is just normal use of the English language. *every single* means *a
noticably large percentage* in normal use of the language.

Thanks for letting me know that. I thought every single means every single.

 

[Debashish Chakravarty]

I am sure you know the difference between "all" and "all that I have seen in
a particular newsgroup".

[snip]

I apologize, I thought it was obvious from the context since I quoted Joona.

 

[Sudheer Reddy Vakati]

This is what Joona wrote:
Why is it that *every single* Indian C programmer I have seen on
this newsgroup writes "u" for "you"?

He was surprised that *every single* Indian C programmer uses "u"
instead of "you". I am sure you know the difference between "many" and
*every single*.

Yeah ! I also know when to react when not to react and more particularly
when not to over-react. I can guage what a person person meant to convey
through his words, instead reading things more literally.


Sudheer

 

[Arthur J. O'Dwyer]

Bzzt. The point is, C is a nonsequitur.
B didn't pose any question, it stated that B didn't believe Fred to be
the most handsome person in the world. He didn't believe it. Not that
he had some questions to ask about whether Fred was or not.

geez.

What is your first language[,] Mark? You do very good at
English [sic] for somebody who isn't a native speaker...

No need to go all ungrammatical on Mark, Floyd. Just to
clear things up, and for the record:

"I doubt that X is true." CORRECT!
"I doubt the veracity of X." CORRECT!
"I have my doubts about X." Colloquial, but CORRECT!
"I question the veracity of X." CORRECT!

"I have a question about X." CORRECT, but note shift in meaning.

"I have a doubt about X." INCORRECT! Not English! Do not say this!


-Arthur;
see also _Bob's Guide to the Apostrophe, You Idiots_

 

[Debashish Chakravarty]

(e-mail address removed) (seemanta dutta) wrote in message

yeah, I agree. It is a typical example of western double
standards.
remember how they developed the first atomic bomb and used it against
japan??
and now they have the guts to preach to other countries the evil of
nuclear weapons!!

What the hell has that got to do with topic under discussion? Many
westerners were unhappy with what Joona wrote, there is at least one
Indian who thought that Joona was right in writing what he did. Joona
apologized. No westerner here proposed nuking India or taking away her
nukes.

besides i think the average person no matter what background he is
from who posts in this group has the minimum intelligence level
required to 'decipher' the meaning of 'u', of course with the
exception of u and ur friends who fail to understand that getting
one's view across is more important than getting involved in the usage
of english language, at least in this newsgroup.

Let the people of this newsgroup decide what they are comfortable
with. If wrong spellings irritate a lot of people here, why would
anyone want to persist with it if he is really interested in
contributing to the group.

 

[CBFalconer]

I think, all of your suggestions are if I own a computer. But,
unfortunately I don't own computer. For me and most of the people
who use public Internet cafe, the only solution is to use
web-based Google Groups (AFAIK).

AHA - a light dawns. This explains _some_ of the anomalies in
those postings. It just means that it is harder for those people
to generate properly formatted, snipped, and attributed messages,
but it still doesn't excuse failure to do so. There is an old
proverb about the workman blaming his tools.

 

[Sudheer Reddy Vakati]

Bogus argument: Nobel prizes are often awarded on political grounds.

Dan

Very much true.


Sudheer

 

[Floyd Davidson]

Which is to say, "I have a question about..."

A: "Fred is the most handsome man in the world."
B: "I have my doubts about that."
C: "What is your question?"

D: "How anyone can call Fred handsome at all."

Bzzt. The point is, C is a nonsequitur.
B didn't pose any question, it stated that B didn't believe Fred to be
the most handsome person in the world. He didn't believe it. Not that
he had some questions to ask about whether Fred was or not.

geez.

What is your first language[,] Mark? You do very good at
English [sic] for somebody who isn't a native speaker...

No need to go all ungrammatical on Mark, Floyd. Just to
clear things up, and for the record:

"I doubt that X is true." CORRECT!
"I doubt the veracity of X." CORRECT!
"I have my doubts about X." Colloquial, but CORRECT!
"I question the veracity of X." CORRECT!

"I have a question about X." CORRECT, but note shift in meaning.

"I have a doubt about X." INCORRECT! Not English! Do not say this!

Learn English, and come back with a correct example. *NONE* of your
corrections (I count three) are correct. (It does indicate your age
though, given the idea that a comma is necessary in the sentence above.
It took me literally decades to accept the lack of commas as correct.)

 

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

I have a doubt that RJH's bowel function is relevant to this discussion.

I couldn't understand what do you mean here. Anyway, if you find
it odd or irrelevant, my apologies for that. But, I want to let you
know that I didn't hurt anyone (according to my conscience)

 

[CBFalconer]

Thanks for letting me know that. I thought every single means every
single.

No, it means each and every unmarried Indian C programmer
Don't you think it is about time this thread was allowed to
expire?

 

[Anupam]

Bogus argument: Nobel prizes are often awarded on political grounds.

Ok faux pas. I was just talking about major scientific and other
achievements in general not being any particular community's servant.

 

[Simon Biber]

You missed the article 'a', it should be 'is a regular'.

I couldn't understand what do you mean here. Anyway, if you find
it odd or irrelevant, my apologies for that. But, I want to let you
know that I didn't hurt anyone (according to my conscience)

regular
adj.
6. a. Occurring with normal or healthy frequency.
b. Having bowel movements or menstrual periods with normal or healthy frequency.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

All i want to say is if americans can convert 'programme' to
'program' then why can't we use 'u' for you.

You can, obviously. But it impairs communication and is discourteous to your
readers. That is probably not the effect you are trying to achieve.

 

[Christian Bau]

Language is way of presenting our thoughts. When you are speaking,
several times you use incorrect English. But then the main aim is to
convey your thoughts. Same is the case here.

The intention is to tell "u" what one thinks. So does that matter in
any ways. So many of us have taken part in this discussion and we all
know what exactly "u" means. This infers that intentions of the writer
were fulfilled. Then why to take a break and think so long about it. I
don't understand.

Discussing good points about C is better than thinking about why "u"
instead of "you".

As has been explained by a native Indian speaker, "u" is used by many
Indians to convey that they are cosmopolitan, that they are cool and
trendy. It is not only used to convey information, it is used to say
something about the writer as well.

Unfortunately, when _I_ read "u", what it says about the author is
something very much different. Using "u" identifies you (in my culture)
as someone who cannot use their own brain, who thinks they stand out by
imitating a bad style, it identifies you as someone not worth listening
to.

So you see, using "u" will very much be misunderstood. 90% of the
readers will _not_ understand the underlying meaning correctly. I can
understand the message well enough, but what the message is supposed to
say about the author is misunderstood.

The same happens if someone uses words like "optomize", "scaler",
"algorhythm", which is something that lots of Americans seem to do: If
someone cannot even spell the word correctly, people conclude that they
have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Christian Bau]

Thanks for letting me know that. I thought every single means every single.

In mathematics, yes. In English, no.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

In mathematics, yes. In English, no.

Hmmm. I must admit that I thought "every single" meant "every single", even
in English. I've checked with a native English speaker (myself), and he
agrees with me.

 

[Richard Bos]

No its bl**dy well not. Look up the meaning of the noun "doubt". It
does not mean question. Not even in American English dictionaries.

And to strengthen this POV: I'd never seen this particular misuse of
"doubt" anywhere until it suddenly started cropping up on Usenet, a
couple of years ago, used mainly by USAnians, and young non-native
speakers who also show an imperfect grasp of grammar. I suspect it is a
Californication common among a certain generation of wannabe-cool kids.

Richard

 

[Richard Bos]

This is just normal use of the English language. *every single* means *a
noticably large percentage* in normal use of the language.

Since when?

Richard

 

[Morris Dovey]

The only problem i have is that who gives anyone the right to
judge me as right or wrong. I and i alone stand as the sole
judge of what i write and how i write it.

Unless you're talking only to yourself, /you/ give that
permission to every free person to whom you speak or write. If
you place your writing in a public place, then what you write and
how you write it become subject to the judgement of all readers.

If the person i am reffering to understands it then that's all
that matters to me.

That's as it may be. Your public words touch all who see or hear
and /invite/ consideration, judgement, and possible agreement or
disagreement. If these consequences are unwanted, then perhaps a
more private communication would better serve your desire.

you mentioned about the BPO industry moving over to India. To
tell you the truth i am currently employed in the same
industry as technical support engineer. And the first thing
that my instructor for voice and accent told me was that 'an
accent can never be wrong, it can be only different'.

I find myself in agreement with your instructor with one small
reservation - If the accent is such as to cause the attempt at
communication to fail, then even though not "wrong" the accent
does then constitute a real problem.

[I was once asked by a Pole (who spoke excellent English with an
Oxford accent) to act as an interpreter between himself and a
North Carolina store clerk (who spoke excellent English with a
strong local accent) because neither could even begin to
understand the other. Interestingly, /I/ had no difficulty
understanding either of them; and neither of them had difficulty
understanding me.]

I believe that the same stands for all sorts of communication.
I also studied linguistics as a part of my studies for a voice
recognition project. I learned there that the even the
english and grammer used by the most illiterate person in
India is not wrong. It even has a name for it 'Indian Standard
English'.

I envy your opportunity to engage in a formal study of
linguistics. My untrained observation has been that any language
or language derivative that meets the communication needs of its
speakers is "useful"; but may be considered "not useful" when it
fails to meet those needs.

All i want to say is if americans can convert 'programme' to
'program' then why can't we use 'u' for you.

Obviously you can. However, it is worth noting that English
speakers of a multitude of nationalities have asked that you not
do so; and have explained that the practice reduces the quality
of communication for them. Your choosing to continue the practice
conveys a lack of respect for those individuals to all observers.

Freedom to choose implies acceptance of responsibility for the
consequences of the choice made. The larger part of wisdom would
seem to lie in considering the possible consequences /before/
making the choice.

 

[Christian Bau]

Since when?

In sentences like
"Every single time you do the washing up, you break a plate."
"You forgot every single wedding anniversary."
"Every time he opens his mouth, a lie comes out."