Re: I have a problem with this:

[Jenn]

I'm happy when I'm barring, too, but some people here find contentment
and satisfaction in the periodic 2-buck-chuck nights.

(PS: Don't tell Adrienne I said that.)

{{whispers so Adrienne won't hear ... what's a '2-buck-chuck night'?}}

 

[Neredbojias]

You could make it really snazzy. It already loads very fast, which
is an attractive aspect to any site with video on it. You could have
alot more content on that one page by consolidating into a pagination
format, or something similar. Your functionality could be multiplied
many times over and anyone visiting that page would be likely to come
back often. Adding other content to that page along with the video
would also increase time spent on your site, which, if you have
advertisers, is an attractive selling point. Some advertisers go
for clicks, others go for clicks and time spent. You have the
potential for both with a little re-orgainization.

Well, I want to take it slow and methodically because I'm more
interested in longevity than splash. Also, there will be no
advertisers (unless some dope wants to pay me a *truly indecent* amount
of cash for a small blurb placed where *I* decide to put it. I don't
want this turned into a crap site. Furthermore and realistically, how
hard is the site outline to copy?)

Happy to help, Neredbojias.

Thanks again.

 

[freemont]

better to use the drop down
preference option in your kf that says "For ever more. Amen".

I'll burn that bridge when I get to it. ;-)

 

[Neredbojias]

On Tue, 4 May 2010 06:10:42 +0000 (UTC)

[snip]

I used to say that about frames. Anyway, the site is up and some
of the bugs are even worked out of it. There are several tables
(but don't expect it to be what you expect.)

http://www.moviegnu.com

If you or someone with virgin ie7 could check it in that, I'd
appreciate it.

Seems to work and look fine in IE7.

I do have a few suggestions:

• Filter the onresize calls. It's not too bad if it is simply
maximized or minimized, but resizing in any other way will
make many many resize calls, could cause a problem.

http://bootnicredirect.bounceme.net/ex0002

I see what you're getting at (per the link example) but I sorta like
watching the vid grow or shrink as I move the page border(s). However,
I will do some thorough testing and if there is a prob, will change it.
Oddly, most of my past resizes were time-delayed or "filtered" as you
suggest.

• Change document.body.clientHeight/Width to
document.documentElement.clientHeight/Width.

Using that elsewhere (-not in the resize routine, on other pages)
didn't work in all browsers (-forgot which). However, using
document.body elsewhere didn't work in all browsers, either, so I was
surprised it seems to in that routine! Dunno what's going on there.
Anyway, I'll check it out.

• If you wish to check for Opera I suggest using window.opera
rather then getting the uastring.

if(window.opera){/*do something for opera*/}

Okay, sounds good. I really don't like using the ua string for browser
sniffing.

Over all it looks good.

Thanks much. Have a good one.

 

[Jenn]

On 04 May 2010, "Jenn" <[email protected]>

Thanks again.

So what are you going to do with the site? Anything new?

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

I'm happy when I'm barring, too, but some people here find contentment
and satisfaction in the periodic 2-buck-chuck nights.

(PS: Don't tell Adrienne I said that.)

I heard that!

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

{{whispers so Adrienne won't hear ... what's a '2-buck-chuck night'?}}

In California, we have a store called Trader Joes, it's a specialty store
that has its own brands of natural and organic foods, at inexpensive
prices. They are the exclusive retailer of Charles Shaw wine, often called
"Two Buck Chuck" because it's only $1.99 a bottle...and it's good. I
particularly like the Shiraz.

 

[Neredbojias]

{{whispers so Adrienne won't hear ... what's a '2-buck-chuck
night'?}}

A jug of wine you can buy from a discount-type booze store for 2 bucks
or so. I think it's like a gallon - easily enough to get soused on for
very little gelt. Adrienne committed the gross indiscretion of
mentioning she was imbibing on such one time so I tease her.

 

[Neredbojias]

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Neredbojias


I heard that!

What? -Oh, some dirty cad typed-in a message while I was in the
bathroom. For shame!

 

[Neredbojias]

So what are you going to do with the site? Anything new?

Oh, I'll probably get bored with it after a while and start adding
"neat" little things periodically until eventually it becomes so
unwieldly that I really hate it. That's my usual modus operandi,
anyway, and should it occur, I'll simply move on to something new I can
protractedly ruin in the future.

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

A jug of wine you can buy from a discount-type booze store for 2 bucks
or so. I think it's like a gallon - easily enough to get soused on for
very little gelt. Adrienne committed the gross indiscretion of
mentioning she was imbibing on such one time so I tease her.

Actually, a 2002 bottle of Shiraz won top prize in the 2004 International
Eastern Wine Competition, up against 2300 other wines. Not bad, I would
say, for 2 bucks. Oh, and it doesn't come by the gallon, it comes in the
standard wine bottle size, 3/4 liter.

 

[Jenn]

A jug of wine you can buy from a discount-type booze store for 2 bucks
or so. I think it's like a gallon - easily enough to get soused on for
very little gelt. Adrienne committed the gross indiscretion of
mentioning she was imbibing on such one time so I tease her.

Thanks for the explanation.. that's funny.

Speaking of wine .. this year my husband began a new hobby and he is now
making wine. My kitchen and dining area has been turned into a wine
processing plant.. jugs of fermenting wine, bubblers, large jugs for aging
the wine, etc. I have to say it is pretty good... some is white, some red,
and some blush.

 

[Jenn]

Actually, a 2002 bottle of Shiraz won top prize in the 2004 International
Eastern Wine Competition, up against 2300 other wines. Not bad, I would
say, for 2 bucks. Oh, and it doesn't come by the gallon, it comes in the
standard wine bottle size, 3/4 liter.

I bought a bottle of some Spanish wine a few weeks back from a local liquor
store and it was supposed to have a good reputation because they said
everyone liked it, and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was. I
haven't had a chance to go back and buy another bottle yet, tho, but if I
find it again, if anyone is interested, I'll post the name of it.

 

[Jenn]

Oh, I'll probably get bored with it after a while and start adding
"neat" little things periodically until eventually it becomes so
unwieldly that I really hate it. That's my usual modus operandi,
anyway, and should it occur, I'll simply move on to something new I can
protractedly ruin in the future.

LOL I like your sense of humor.

question... how in the world do you pronounce your username here?
Neredbojias? Does it mean anything or is it just a favorite word?

 

[Jeremy J Starcher]

I've never used a validator in the 14 yrs I've been making websites.
Occasionally, I have seen a person here or there talk about them, but
only here have I heard of any necessity of using them. How many people
post here on average? If it is such a necessity, why have I not heard of
it being so important until 14 yrs after the fact? I'm not saying it
doesn't exist... I'm saying in the 14 yrs I've been doing this no one
has cared to inquire if a site validated with W3C.

I cannot answer why you have not heard about the validator until
recently. Many of us who who were doing web design back in the early
days of the web, circa 93-95, understood the importance of fully valid
HTML even back then, because every browser did error correction
differently. When the W3C validator became available, we considered it a
G-dsend, because we no longer had to use our local kludges and we had
something that worked.

To me, not knowing about this piece of fundamental technology would be
rather akin to a country backwoods doctor not understanding why he should
wash his hands before sitting them inside of me.

I hang around a bunch of crafters ... people who make things with in old
fashion "ma-and-pa" type shops, often in their living room. One group
uses butt-joints in all of their construction, and the other group uses a
dovetail joint.

To the average joe who comes 'round at the shows, the two products look
very similar, but one is more expensive than the other. They'll often
buy the cheaper one based just on price ...

Those of us in the know, however, buy the more expensive one. The only
difference I can tell between the two products is that joint -- but that
joint tells me a lot. It tells me that one product was made to last, it
tells me that extra care was taken to make sure of a firm foundation.

I review web pages and markup the same way. If there are validation
errors, it is a flag that care wasn't taken.

If I can resize my text and the page falls apart, it tells me that care
wasn't taken.

I know you are convinced of what you are saying, but it's not going to
stop me from using tables because I like the control they afford when
building content. It's a basic technique that works even when other
techniques consume time just trying to figure them out.

May I make a recommendation? Just something that perhaps will allow you
see the world a little differently?

Install two pieces of software on your machine.

1) FireVox -- a free voice reader. Pull up one your web pages, close
your eyes, and listen to the screen reader rattle off at you. This is
what a blind person will hear visiting your site.

2) Any text based browser.. "links" or "lynx" should be available for
windows. This is what someone with a browser with no style sheets, no
graphics and no ECMAScript (Javascript) will see. Older computer users,
those with failing eyesite, or those using older cell phones and a WAP
interface?

Then visit a well-designed site using those two technologies.

(I admit, one of my sites falls apart in that environment, but it is a
graphical parts look up -- look at the picture and pick out the part that
you need. Blind folks just ain't gunna be using this one.....)

No one I know of cares about the code... all they care about is what
they see and if it works or not and is completed by it's due date.

Then you have dealt with only a small subset of the clients out there.
Trust me, there are people who have very strong requirements about
accessibility and how they interact with adaptive technologies.

Make no mistake.. I take pride in my work, and I work very hard to give
my clients what they ask for... I've spent many long hours studying on
my own and playing with code just for the sake of practicing it. I even
took one summer to learn vb and vb.net and write my own desktop program
just to see if I could do it. Next, I studied about 6 months to learn
Visual Studio and T-sql so I could build databases. I already was
familiar with that somewhat because the backend of Access uses a similar
language and interface as sql (but my Access version was older than the
Visual Studio that I studied.) I learned all of this in books and
countless tutorials, I did it all on my own. I worked hard for years
when my kids were growing up, and learned a skill that I could earn a
decent wage at, and I have been successful. I couldn't go to school
because I was the teacher, mother, and whatever else my family needed
when we were raising our kids and homeschooling them - 3 of them - I
homeschooled for approx. 19 yrs total. When I was hired for my first
"real" job I finally made enough money to buy groceries on a regular
basis and buy clothes for my kids at Walmart instead of buying second
hand clothing for them all the time. I had that part-time job for like 4
yrs. Do you know what it is like to finally be able to tell your
child... "Yes you can have that brand new dress or pair of shorts?" When
I got my present job I was so happy that I would cry every day on the
way to work because I was so greatful to have it. You have no idea what
it really means to have pride in your work until you've spent a lifetime
studying by yourself in hopes that some day you will be able to earn a
living.

This is something that I understand well. I, too, am mostly self
taught. Mind you, when I first got into computers, there just weren't
classes and one had to learn on one's own.

I learned BASIC on an Atari 8Bit and later another version on a 6502. I
learned 6502 assembly, 8088 assembly, Pascal .. and a dozen other
technologies that are now so far out of date that most people have never
heard of them.

You are self taught! Wonderful! Truly! Most of the best coders I know
have been self-taught. Unforunately, there is a major trap that being
self-taught brings...

Technology changes. Time moves on. The learning NEVER STOPS.

It is a sad truth, but you have to keep learning to keep up.

CSS was a hurdle for me.. I pulled my hair out and cursed and screamed at
it. It /still/ has aspects that are ass-backwards. But now that I'm
comfortable and familiar with it, I can get the same results much faster
than I could before... And I'm not alone in that observation.

To take a page out of history..

Did you know that the machine gun existed in the time of the American
Civil War (ACW)? But the leading military minds of the time said "No,
thats OK. We like our single-shot flint locks. We know how to use them."

I don't know the machine gun being used in any battle ... but historians
today believe that just four or five of those could have turned the
entire war, in either side.

Likewise, once one learns CSS, it can make web development soo much
faster. Prototyping is done in a snap. Want to see what a different
margin looks like? Change one line.

Some of you people here (not necessarily you Adrienne[this post is
actually one of the nicer posts I've seen so far) seem to be so happy to
put me down and get your digs in because I haven't done it like you
would do it... my code isn't what you think it should be... an inanimate
thing seems to have more value than a human being has to some of
you...... but until you've walked a mile in my shoes, I have to wonder
how you could be so cruel and mean to someone you don't know in the name
of code?

I can't speak for everyone here .. but let me share a secret with you
that is true about many people who are in the the computer field. Most
of us are thick-skinned call-it-like-we-see it beasts who lack social
graces and charms.

You have to realize something ... as odd as this may seem to you. As
counter as it may seem to all natural order ...

When a geek criticizes something you'd done -- that is a compliment in
and of itself. If they offer comments about what can be done better,
they are saying "You are worth me putting some time into ... "

Had you shown up and been ignored ... that /would/ have been an insult.

 

[Jenn]

Well, then, let me clarify. You are on the beginner scale with respect to
css. You have used it and do use, but by comparison with others here you
are a beginner/novice. You and I are in the same situation in that
respect. I, too, hack up css but a faaaaaaar from entering into the
expert category. I, too, am a self-taught programmer and have been doing
it for 30 years and earned a handsome living at it. However, there are
STILL things about html/php/javascript/AJAX/etc. that I learn every week.
So, I wouldn't call myself an expert. Most of the people here are MUCH
closer to being an expert that I am or will ever be.

I think I disagree with you on symatics. I don't believe either of us are
novices... we are in an intermediate level as far as using CSS and learning
it. By no means are either of us beginners with CSS. Now, php I know
little about and haven't even tried to learn it... javascript, I can read
much of it, but I am not good at writing it... however, I can adapt it for
whenever I need to use it.. AJAX ... I've used on occasion, and can adapt
it to do what I need it to do similarly as with javascript.

I don't expect I will ever be an expert at anything, but everyone isn't
meant to be an expert. You probably enjoy learning new things as much as I
do, tho... I just have a method I go about in order to learn, and it doesn't
involve people attacking me and picking apart my old code, either.. LOL
(yes.. I am smiling) The problem with some experts is that they may know
their craft, but they have no idea how to teach it to someone else. They
are impatient and often times even smug to the people who are trying to
learn. I'd rather killfile those experts, and learn from each other, if
that is the next best alternative.

There is no reason for people attacking you. None! I think they just
didn't understand your style of posting -- and some can be rather
mean-spirited.

I agree with you here.

By uneducated I was referring to your apparent dismissal of the importance
of css and a demonstrated unwillingness to listen to criticism.

I did not ask to be taught CSS when I came here. It's supposed to be an
html group. I also did not ask anyone for help or for an analysis of my old
links. It was totally unsolicited advice and criticism, and if I had wanted
someone to do such a thing I would have probably asked someone specifically
what they thought myself, at which point, it would not be a problem
accepting any constructive criticism or assistance.

These people here ARE the closest things to experts you will find [for
free].

Oh.. I have access to other *experts*. If I need help.. I am well able to
ask for it myself.

It is to YOUR advantage to listen and learn and not say "The customer is
happy so why should I care? LOL". It is that LOL, I believe, that set off
a number of those experts.

They seem a bit touchy, imo. I have no desire to learn from people who have
zero sense of humor and no sensible communication skills.

Basically, the way you used it came off as "go do a certain something to
yourself". Sorry, but that is the it was received. That may not have
been your intention, but that was the effect.

If they had better communication skills they might have asked me to clarify
what I meant instead of trying to draw blood.

Now, in summary, I can sympathize with you. I can do it because I am in
the same technical boat (even though I have taught several different
college level programming courses). I suggest that in the future you
think about not putting out a dismissive attitude when advice is given.

I will do as I see fit, just as those mean and nasty bulls in a china closet
have done likewise. I understand what you are saying, but you don't know me
personally or even long enough to make such a suggestion.

_YOU_ will be the eventual loser. I say that from experience. I can't
even begin to tell you how much help I have received over the years from
this group, the javascript group, and the php group. It has been
invaluable. The first step, after doing sufficient research, it to put
forth the problem politely, then try the advice, and finally thank those
that helped. It also prevents fights. (Well, there is ONE poster on
these newsgroups that that may not work with.)

Again, I do appreciate your helpful attitude, but I don't need advice on how
to ask for assistance from abusive people who consider themselves to be
experts. I'd rather ask nice people who I know are experts, and have a
decent level of communication skills and professionalism so they know how to
interact with a lady.

So Jenn, continue programming and earning a living. However, try to look
at some of the advice given here as it is usually quite valuable. I
started this thread. In the beginning, the advice was "why not use
tables? That is what they are for". I spoke to my boss and got him to
agree -- in part because I could tell him that this is what the experts
said. After that, people here started saying that I should just use css
for what I wanted. I am not listening to them with that because it is SO
much easier with tables. I _AM_ listening to them, though, in that I am
formatting the tables via css, and not inline specifications.

It IS much easier with tables... CSS has it's purpose, and I'm fine with
that.

I intended my original reply to which you just responded as an overall
positive. I am sorry you did not see it that way.

I saw it more as being neutral. I don't mind having a good discussion about
any topic. Disagreeing with you at any point has nothing to do with whether
or not I like you... thus far... I DO like you! I hope to continue chatting
with you on many other topics.

 

[Jenn]

On Tue, 04 May 2010 21:56:10 -0500, Jenn wrote:


I cannot answer why you have not heard about the validator until
recently. Many of us who who were doing web design back in the early
days of the web, circa 93-95, understood the importance of fully valid
HTML even back then, because every browser did error correction
differently. When the W3C validator became available, we considered it a
G-dsend, because we no longer had to use our local kludges and we had
something that worked.

I began learning HTML around that time. Never heard of CSS for yrs, then
began using it for formatting fonts and such.

I hang around a bunch of crafters ... people who make things with in old
fashion "ma-and-pa" type shops, often in their living room. One group
uses butt-joints in all of their construction, and the other group uses a
dovetail joint.

Dovetail joints are stronger and geared more towards *finer furniture*...
butt joints are functional and do ok for furniture that you don't expect to
be handing down to future generations.

May I make a recommendation? Just something that perhaps will allow you
see the world a little differently?

<snip>

Interesting experiment you suggested. I don't really have time to do that
now, or even this week, but I'll keep it in mind when I do get some time
where I can play around with it.

(I admit, one of my sites falls apart in that environment, but it is a
graphical parts look up -- look at the picture and pick out the part that
you need. Blind folks just ain't gunna be using this one.....)

This is something that I understand well. I, too, am mostly self
taught. Mind you, when I first got into computers, there just weren't
classes and one had to learn on one's own.

.... same for me......

I learned BASIC on an Atari 8Bit and later another version on a 6502. I
learned 6502 assembly, 8088 assembly, Pascal .. and a dozen other
technologies that are now so far out of date that most people have never
heard of them.

I remember those languages from hearing others talk about them... they
aren't my gift! LOL

You are self taught! Wonderful! Truly! Most of the best coders I know
have been self-taught. Unforunately, there is a major trap that being
self-taught brings...
Technology changes. Time moves on. The learning NEVER STOPS.
It is a sad truth, but you have to keep learning to keep up.

Over the last 4 years I have been learning a good bit because of where I
work now. It's alot of on the job training on the fly and figuring out as I
go while meeting a deadline at the same time. That's my work life.

CSS was a hurdle for me.. I pulled my hair out and cursed and screamed at
it. It /still/ has aspects that are ass-backwards. But now that I'm
comfortable and familiar with it, I can get the same results much faster
than I could before... And I'm not alone in that observation.

haha ... I've my own 'pull-my-hair-out' moments too.. so I can empathize
there. I just don't have the time to learn CSS from scratch. I learn as I
need it.. if that makes sense. It's like "how do I do such and such" ... I
look for it... hunt for it.. find something similar and adapt it for what I
need to do.. then move on the the next project.

Likewise, once one learns CSS, it can make web development soo much
faster. Prototyping is done in a snap. Want to see what a different
margin looks like? Change one line.

I wouldn't know where to even begin as far as starting at the beginning to
learn CSS... short of buying a book and spending hours and hours trying to
learn it on my own how to build a website totally via CSS.. I don't think
that'll happen... although I wouldn't mind learning it... Just don't have
enough hours in the day, and I can't spend the off hours working too or I'll
go nuts.

I can't speak for everyone here .. but let me share a secret with you
that is true about many people who are in the the computer field. Most
of us are thick-skinned call-it-like-we-see it beasts who lack social
graces and charms.

Well.. as far as I can tell there is a majority of men who code. You're a
man and you are doing quite well talking to me like you aren't a caveman,
and you haven't tried to take a pound of flesh from me yet, either. You
must be pretending to have social graces and charms, but you're doing a good
job of it. I'll also pretend that you have those skills and enjoy the
benefits of a nice conversation with you. Deal?

You have to realize something ... as odd as this may seem to you. As
counter as it may seem to all natural order ...
When a geek criticizes something you'd done -- that is a compliment in
and of itself.

You could have fooled me... I haven't been around many geeks.. in
fact.. I can't think of any at all. I'm the only one I know of who does
what I do locally or online, save the occasional hobbyist. People I know
look at me like I'm an alien from Mars when I tell them I'm a webmaster.
Most have a difficult time understanding email. It is difficult to talk
about what I do even with my family because their eyes just glass over while
they pretend to be interested. They just know I've learned how to design and
build websites on my own, and now I have a good job because I worked to
learn it on my own. LOL

When I started at my current position 4 yrs ago, I gained access to a
network of other webmasters, but that is only via email and there really
isn't any interactive contact between us all, so again, I have no real
contact with other geek citizens. This newsgroup is the first time I've had
any opportunity to be interactive with anyone else who does this stuff. I
don't know anything else but being on my own. I suppose that's what
prompted me to look around usenet for a place where other people liked to
code websites like I do. I had no idea a person had to behave like a beast
to be a part of a group of geeks. //(ô_õ)\\ You seem pleasant enough to
talk to, so at least there is hope for me finding people who I can interact
with.

If they offer comments about what can be done better,
they are saying "You are worth me putting some time into ... "

Again .. you could have fooled me!

Had you shown up and been ignored ... that /would/ have been an insult.

I could have done without all the grief sent my way, thus far.

Nice chatting with you. I look forward to more of it.

 

[dorayme]

....

I can't speak for everyone here .. but let me share a secret with you
that is true about many people who are in the the computer field. Most
of us are thick-skinned call-it-like-we-see it beasts who lack social
graces and charms.

You have to realize something ... as odd as this may seem to you. As
counter as it may seem to all natural order ...

When a geek criticizes something you'd done -- that is a compliment in
and of itself. If they offer comments about what can be done better,
they are saying "You are worth me putting some time into ... "

Had you shown up and been ignored ... that /would/ have been an insult.

Well said with everything, including snipped...

Just a small note: what I observed was far beyond the level of a
lack of charm and grace. The lack of charm and grace can be a
very good thing in fact as long as it stops at the zero bit of
that scale.

 

[Jenn]

On 5/6/2010 1:02 PM, Jenn wrote:

I suggest you learn more about javascript. As for php, if you don't
either php or .net of some other server side language, then you are a web
designer and not a web developer. You are limited to "look and feel" and
cannot prepare data driven sites that require database interaction (other
than prepared ones like bulletin boards or shopping carts). It is very
limiting to not know server side coding.

I really don't believe I will ever be developer at this point unless I am
put into the position where I need to become one, then I will once again be
learning on the fly to do whatever the task is at the time. I really don't
enjoy that part, tho. When I had some training time learning t-sql on
Visual Studio, I thought I may enjoy going in that direction, but after the
training, it didn't pan out, so I'm sitting on that training for now.

Please read the current reply by Jeremy J. Starcher. He has some
excellent things to say on this subject.

I did and I responded to him.

As soon as you post a site that you did as evidence of your work you have
implicitly asked for analysis and comments. Such is life.

If I had been told that.. I would not have posted any links.

It takes TWO to communicate. Yes, they were bullies. Now do a little
self-analysis.

I'm fairly good at communicating with people, and don't see any need for
self-analysis here because it is obvious that I responded to nasty people
attempting to get them to back off. I have no patience for people who go
for someones jugular unprovoked. I will defend myself if I have to.

....and it is statements like that ("I will do as I see fit") that set
people off. I understand you will do that. We ALL will. But saying it
sends angry vibes.

I say that because I grow weary of people trying to tell me that I should
conform to their expectations. I was not angry when I said that... just
emphasizing that point so there is no misunderstanding.

After >50 posts, I have some idea. The suggestion was from the school of
hard knocks.

You only know from those 50 posts what I've said in defending myself. Those
posts would have been very different if I had not been attacked.

I am saying that they were abusive, in part, because of the way you
posted. Yes, their flash point is very low, but you did create the spark.
Note that I am _NOT_ defending them. I am only saying my view of what
happened.

Well ... I suppose they know now that their low flash point will not get
anywhere with me. I was the one attacked by them, and I did nothing to
provoke them. They have the low flash points.. I don't, but if someone
wants to start something with me.. fine ... I'd rather not get into
anything with anyone, tho.... if I have to defend myself I will.

"lady"??? That is irrelevent. What difference should it make if you are
male or female? IMNSHO -- none! We are talking about interacting with
PEOPLE!.

Sorry.. we will disagree here. I'm not a bull in a china closet, and there
are some men here who know how to have a discussion with a lady. That's not
too much to ask.... to be treated like a lady by men.

Well, the impression I got was that you received it as a negative. It was
things like "I will do as I see fit" that led to that impression.

I was simply responding to that part of the discussion honestly... it
doesn't mean the entire conversation was negative for me.

 

[Jenn]

In message <[email protected]>

She is on the record many times saying she is entitled to special
treatment because she is female and that anyone who doesn't give her
preferential treatment is abusive and 'slapping' her and she has accused
several posters of this.

I am entitled to be treated in such as way that is right for me... you are
entitled to be treated as you would like, also.

She has made references to violence quite a number of times, including
talking about giving people 'black eyes'. Reflecting on it, I think she
might have an issue.

It is akin to someone walking up to a woman and harassing her by pulling her
hair or pinching her arm or the like.. a normal reaction is to swat the
source of the pain to make it stop... ergo ... verbal harassment and
meanness gets a normal reaction of a cyber black eye.