[OT] Indian C programmers and "u"

[Mike Wahler]

I don't. Mea culpa, and all that.


Please spare me the holier-than-thou attitude. Everyone is hypocritical to
some degree.

"Has it really taken you all these years to decide
that I'm a hypocrite?"

-Prof to Mannie, in Heinliein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress".



-Mike

 

[Floyd Davidson]

continue trying

or

continue to try


I think I love irony.

The irony is that you are the only one not to recognize an
editing error for what it is. Flaming typos, spelling, and
editing errors are all about the same level of quaintness, and
it does put your comments into perspective.

 

[Floyd Davidson]

This is certainly incorrect grammar. Your verb (question)
has no object (noun).

I could care less. That particular bit of grammar came directly
from the article I was responding to, and you have clipped the
context that showed what it was in fact something *I* didn't
create.

Either you didn't understand what the discussion was about,
or you lack integrity.

"I question the assertion that Leed United will win."

"I question the notion that Leed United will win."

etc.

Your examples are no more, or less, correct than the one that
was used above. They are just more verbose, adding to
unnecessary words which provide no added meaning.

What do you think the phase "that Leed United will win" is
in the original sentence?

My sentiment is that I find it ironic when someone
uses incorrect English to correct someone else's English.

I'm not correcting someone else's English. Don't you even
*read* the articles you reply to?

I neither doubt nor question the amusement value I have
derived from this thread.

Grinning idiots are easily amused, so you need to be careful
with what you think you are implying. Regardless, you concept
of "correct" English is indeed amusing. Your displayed lack
of integrity is not.

 

[Mike Wahler]

Took me almost one minute to figure E doubt. Nice one.

One sup on a tie my one Ted tour I tin prop her English.

Smore fun thi sway.

-Mych

 

[Christian Bau]

You are on the right path. "Doubt" expresses very clearly that
there is uncertainty about something. "Question" highly
suggests the same uncertainty. "Problem" is neutral.

I have a doubt with these two lines of C.
I have a question with these two lines of C.
I have a problem with these two lines of C.

Only the last one suggests the lines of C are okay and the
uncertainty is only in the mind of the speaker.

"I have a problem with these two lines of C" might be used during a code
review as a polite way to say "this code is rubbish".

 

[Christian Bau]

I am astonished. I have, in the past, told my children to "when you buy
something in a shop, remember to pay for it *before* you take it out of the
shop, every single time". I would not be impressed by a defence of "but
Daddy, when you said 'every single time', I thought you meant 'most of the
time'".

It seems that writing a computer program that _understands_ English
language would be difficult...

 

[Anuj Heer]

Hats off to Farrell and Heathfield. I bow down to the wisdom of the
great ones. I agree with both of you and do respect your opinions. I
myself will try to take care of this particular problem in future. To
those who still believe in pointing people out based on their caste,
creed, sex or religion all i have to say is out here the only way of
existence is coexistence. We can change but not through threats.

'One man can take a horse to water,
twenty cannot make it drink'

anuj
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Floyd Davidson]

"I have a problem with these two lines of C" might be used during a code
review as a polite way to say "this code is rubbish".

My statement above is according to my dictionary. If you are
saying your version is indeed the way they are used where you
are... then it is a dialectal difference that does suggest the
language is evolving.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Q: ima noob hear, how do u splay stuff on th srn?

A: rite lik ths:

lb.clude 'std.h'

in mane[]
{
prf(hola mundo).
ret O:
)

then pile it by clk F7, ur puter sez wot u rote.

Thank you. At last, a rational response that has some chance of being
effective.

 

[Mark Gordon]

You are on the right path.

I was not on the right path, I was exactly right. I stated the usage of
the words where I grew up and stated that this was the case. Unless you
grew up in Hadleigh, Essex, England or have a reference to English usage
in that area you are not in a position to contradict that.

"Doubt" expresses very clearly that
there is uncertainty about something.

I did not say that it means that something is definitely wrong/bad.

Note that my dictionary, "Either the most relevant or the most general
meaning is given first," so as the first meaning given agrees with me...

| doubt (dout)
| v.t. --- verb, transitive
| 1 To hesitate to accept as true; hold as uncertain; disbelieve.

That matches what I said

| 2 Obs. To be apprehensive of; fear.

Not what either of us is talking about.

| v.i --- verb, intransivitely

| 3 To be in doubt; be uncertain.

So, "Fred is in doubt," could have the meaning you would ascribe to
it.

| 4 To be mistrustful.

| n --- noun
| 1 Lack certain knowledge; uncertainty regarding truth or reality of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
something

Still close on what I was saying.

The synonyms start with, "distrust, mistrust," which agrees with me as
well.

"Question" highly
suggests the same uncertainty.

No, the definition of question starts

| n --- noun
| 1 An interrogative sentence calling for an answer

Not mentioned under doubt. It continues in that line until

| v.t --- verb, transitive
| 1 To put a question or questions to; interrogate.

Then goes on with

| v.i --- verb, intransitive
| 1 To ask a question or questions.

So question is mainly an interrogative where as doubt is an expression
of mistrust in what is doubted.

"Problem" is neutral.

Problem is often, but not always, neutral but meens something different
again.

| n --- noun
| 1 A perplexing question demanding settlement, especially when
| difficult or uncertain of solution; also any puzzling
| circumstance or person.
| 2 /maths/ A proposition in which some operation or construction
| is required, as to bisect an angle; anything proposed to be
| worked out.

This second usage is the one I would most expect with reference to C,
although the first is also possible.

The dictionary does not mention problem being a verb.

I have a doubt with these two lines of C.

Not a phrase that would be used where I grew up. The closest would be
something like, "I doubt it." A phrase which, to me, clearly indicates
disbelief although it does not indicate certainty that something is
wrong.

I have a question with these two lines of C.

Again, not a way of phrasing things I have heard from native English
speakers. "I have a question about these two lines of C," would be the
closest, and indeed neutral. It is also much closer to your phrasing
than I would ever expect to hear than you is the case with you example
of doubt. It does not imply that there is anything wrong with the two
lines of C, just that the questioner wishes to know more about them.

I have a problem with these two lines of C.

Only the last one suggests the lines of C are okay and the
uncertainty is only in the mind of the speaker.

This is the only one of the examples you provided that sounds natural,
however when expressed like that it actually implies that you believe
something is wrong with those lines of C which needs to be solved. Note
that all the definitions of problem include the requirement for action
to be taken (hence the implication of something wrong in the case)
rather than a requirement for information to be provided.

The neutral usage of problem is of the general form:

I have a problem, how do I sort an array of numbers in to descending
order?

There is a problem with my car pulling to the left at speed.

For your homework, I want you to solve the following problems...


The dictionary I am using is The New International Websters
Comprehensive Dictionary Of The English Language, Deluxe Encyclopedic
Edition, 1996 Edition. This dictionary tends to agree with me about the
meanings of doubt, question and problem and, as I said, I know the
definitions of these words from the perspective of a native English
speaker who has grown up in England. I would therefor say that the use
of the word doubt to mean question is a difference in usage to that in
England (for all I know it could be a common where you are) and one
likely to lead to confusion. It is also aggravating (to me) because it
sounds unnatural (to me) and I am therefor likely to be less helpful if
I am in a rush, although I do try to avoid letting poor English from
non-native speakers from affecting my response.

 

[Mark Gordon]

Frankly you're wrong, at least in English, and all the dictionaries
agree, including the american ones. What they may think in West Coast
slang is another matter, but that doesn't make it correct english.
Indeed.


People also say "I should of done that", and "him and me went to the
cinema". That also doesn't make it correct english.

You speak proper, like wot I does?

Not precisely, no. For you it might have, but thats I'm afraid because
your english is flawed, not because you're right.

Anyway who cares? this thread has done it to death.

However, I doubt that it will die easily.

 

[Mark Gordon]

I could care less.

Then please do so and don't get would up by Usenet. Personally, I
could not care less whether you take my advise or not.

That particular bit of grammar came directly
from the article I was responding to, and you have clipped the
context that showed what it was in fact something *I* didn't
create.

Either you didn't understand what the discussion was about,
or you lack integrity.

I do not doubt that there is a danger that some people have lost track
of what this discussion is about.

Your examples are no more, or less, correct than the one that
was used above. They are just more verbose, adding to
unnecessary words which provide no added meaning.

What do you think the phase "that Leed United will win" is
in the original sentence?

Personally, I would have used, "I question whether Leeds United will
win," as it is shorter that Mike's suggestion. However, his suggestions
read and sound more natural that "I question that Leed United will win".

BTW, here are some ss since there seems to be a local shortage.
sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

I'm not correcting someone else's English. Don't you even
*read* the articles you reply to?

Well, you have been saying that certain words don't mean what other
native English speakers believe they mean, and that sounds like trying
to correct other peoples English.

Grinning idiots are easily amused, so you need to be careful
with what you think you are implying.

Mikes phrase above implies to me that he finds this whole debate about
the meanings of the words doubt and question to be highly amusing.
Perhaps your interpretation of the meanings of these words leads you to
infer something else.

Regardless, you concept
of "correct" English is indeed amusing. Your displayed lack
of integrity is not.

I find you misunderstanding of the common definitions of doubt, question
and problem together with some of the other examples of poor English you
have posted to be more sad than amusing, although I do also find parts
of this thread amusing.

 

[Floyd Davidson]

Well, you have been saying that certain words don't mean what other
native English speakers believe they mean, and that sounds like trying
to correct other peoples English.

Major nit, Mark, but if you took the time to *read* the thread
you would have discovered it was precisely the opposite.

I find you misunderstanding of the common definitions of doubt, question
and problem together with some of the other examples of poor English you
have posted to be more sad than amusing, although I do also find parts
of this thread amusing.

My experience indicated otherwise, so I looked it up in a
dictionary and found they *could* mean just what others said
they didn't mean. When I pointed out the dictionary, I was
called numerous amusing names, and some quoted other meanings in
a different dictionary as if any of that disproves the fact that
the words can mean exactly what the original claim was that they
can't.

And *you* have a lot of nerve calling my English poor! I don't
go through anyone's articles looking for typos, mispelling,
editing errors, or odd grammar; and most of all I don't think
those parts of a Usenet post are what determines the correctness
of an idea or argument presented in that post (even it correct
English is the topic). I read for effect! What I want to know
is what the writer was trying to communicate. It's something
you might try yourself, just to see how the other half lives.

Whatever...

I've always found this business of being snooty about "proper
English" to be somewhat hilarious. My field of expertise is not
English, but communications. To me, "proper English" is the
English that best communicates with the intended audience. It
is at best a moving target. I've sat in meetings with prissy
folks that couldn't understand half of the communications
directed at them, and were unable to explain even the simplest
details about significant points, all because they were never
concerned with the art of communicating with the people they
were talking to. Instead, they were very careful to use their
concept of "proper English".

Now, what is *really* amusing is two folks who are up to here
with their proper English who can't communicate with each other.

All of you who continue to insist that words *cannot* mean what
people use them to mean everyday are running a high risk of
being the entertainment.

 

[CBFalconer]

Took me almost one minute to figure E doubt. Nice one.

Duh - I still haven't a clue to either one.

 

[Mike Wahler]

Duh - I still haven't a clue to either one.

C doubt:
.... before planting my garden, I get the seed out.

E doubt:
.... one minute to figure it out. ('it' intentionally
mispronounced as 'eed' -- or doubt pronounced 'tout' ).

-Mike

 

[Christian Bau]

Duh - I still haven't a clue to either one.

You have to speak it aloud, and remember that the b in doubt is silent.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Duh - I still haven't a clue to either one.

Simple hint: Read E doubt loud.

 

[Morris Dovey]

Simple hint: Read E doubt loud.

I already did. Now I'll get doubt of this thread.

 

[gokrix]

I've been wondering about this for too long. Why is it that *every
single* Indian C programmer I have seen on this newsgroup writes "u"
for "you"? Many manage otherwise perfectly grammatical English but
that one mistake sticks out. Do they have a law in India forcing
schools to teach mangled English or something?

I am an Indian. I program in C. I have posted on clc before (and
what is more, you've answered (at least one of) my posts). That makes
me one of the Indian C programmers you have seen on this newsgroup. I
have never used 'u' for 'you' (so far) in my life. What does that
tell u, u kloot?

Bloody Finns. I think I should get on the phone with the Prime
Minister and order him to nuke Helsinki.

What _were_ you thinking, btw, when you made this stupidly racist and
bigoted statement? If I wanted to extrapolate from this post of yours
(the same way you did from your experience with some Indian or other),
I could say that all Finns are racist Nazi jerks. But from your other
posts I know that this is not true even of you (or 'u', since you seem
to prefer it that way), let alone all Finns, and that this post is an
aberration.

See the hornet's nest you stirred up? There is even some moron in
this thread gibbering about the digit '0' originating in India. You
should learn to think twice before you pull that trigger.

And most importantly,

Travel. Read. Learn to respect other nationalities and peoples. Or
better still, learn to treat them with as much _disrespect_ as you
would your own. Tear down the walls in your mind. Believe me, the
world is a much nicer place with the walls down.

Last message in thread. Invoking Godwin's Law.

Thanks,
--GS

PS: For the humour impaired: Don't take the threats to nuke Helsinki
very seriously.
I don't know the meaning of the word kloot. It's a word I just made
up.

 

[Nils Petter Vaskinn]

Nobel prizes are often awarded on political grounds.

For the nobel peace prize: Well duh!

But does this apply to the science and literary prizes too? Can't say I
pay much attention to ho gets them end why, but I thought that politics
wasn't involved, except perhaps the scientific politics (eg: western
medicine "drug them till they get well" attitude vs alternative medicine)
but that shouldn't affect the distribution around the globe.